News Forum - Thailand to require 3 million baht insurance for non- OA immigrant visas

[AussieBob]

10 minutes ago, Inlandchris said:

“IMO”=guess

Opinion. Based on many years of observation and first hand experience. 

[Faz]

11 minutes ago, Inlandchris said:

Ingonre

There you go.
Almost an anagram of Gonorrhea

[Griff1315]

No worries plenty of room and a more welcoming government in Laos, Cambodia lot cheaper to live as well...

It's about time Thailand realized their not the only players in the game....

[AussieBob]

Just now, HolyCowCm said:

Yeah who knows, but if they had any smarts to them then they would just apply a universal annual fee of maybe 10k or 20k to visa holders or ones that will renew at the immigration office. Or just require an additional 1 million to be held in the bank? Anything over 1 million in one single bank is absurd as no guarantee over that amount. For me any one of these options is fine, and to date I already just keep close to USD $50k in my banks already which includes the 400k as not on a retirement. 

That all sounds very good, except when you realise that they introduced the mandatory 800K deposited into a Thai bank account to 'ensure' Expats living long term in Thailand had enough funds to live and also to pay for unexpected medical expenses.  Unfortunately for those of us that play by the rules, there are many who do not (both Expats and Thais) and subsequently Expats are still living in Thailand with no insurance coverage at all and no money to pay for unexpected medical expenses. 

[Malc-Thai]

55 minutes ago, Faz said:

You applied to extend your permission of stay, a permit, not a Visa.

It was my retirement visa yearly renewal .. if "permission of stay " that's what it's called.. I could renew up to 45 days before it expired but now in phuket they allow up to 30 days before.. 

[Faz]

18 minutes ago, ThailandBob said:

This is a deal killer for me, as I won't be insurable yet have ฿11.3 M in real estate here.

Thought you were married to a Thai.
Doesn't apply to extensions of stay based on marriage, or extensions based on an original Non Imm O Visa.

[AussieBob]

1 hour ago, HolyCowCm said:

They are doing an excellent job of running this country into the ground and increasing the disdain of them by the Thai and foreigners alike. Wife says Thai are getting severely ticked off for them trying to suck extra money by taxes. Keep it up and they won't have anything left to run as this country will be given a wide berth. 

Mate it already is - far less people here are as interested in retiring/moving to Thailand as they were 10 years ago. The only ones looking that way to live long term now are the desperates (you know who I mean) and those married to a Thai.   When I mentioned all this latest Junta anti-Farang move to the wife, she said we can always go and live in Philippines or Singapore when I retire and get the pension.  Time will tell.

[Griff1315]

1 minute ago, Malc-Thai said:

It was my retirement visa yearly renewal .. if "permission of stay " that's what it's called.. I could renew up to 45 days before it expired but now in phuket they allow up to 30 days before.. 

That's another big problem with Thai immigration the rules applied vary  by the office you use. Just applied for my renewal and was told up to 45 days before expiry.

[BlueSphinx]

3 minutes ago, Bob20 said:

It doesn't say that it has to be Thai insurance. And if you have insurance 400/40k (already now enforced) then why shouldn't you be able to get 3m coverage? Let's not get carried away yet.

When applying for the Non Imm O-A Visa - which can only be done at the Thai Embassy of your home-country or country of permanent residence - also foreign health-insurance is accepted  that meets the 400K/40K in/out-patient requirements.  But in such case your insurer has to fill-in and sign the Foreign Insurance Certificate, and since that FIC does refer to Thai legislation which your foreign insurer will not be familiar with many are reluctant to sign that document.

But once in Thailand  and when applying for the 1-year extension of stay based on your original Non Imm O-A Visa for reason of retirement, Thai Immigration will ONLY accept the 400K/40K health-insurance when issued by by a TGIA-associated THAI insurer.

[HolyCowCm]

2 minutes ago, AussieBob said:

That all sounds very good, except when you realise that they introduced the mandatory 800K deposited into a Thai bank account to 'ensure' Expats living long term in Thailand had enough funds to live and also to pay for unexpected medical expenses.  Unfortunately for those of us that play by the rules, there are many who do not (both Expats and Thais) and subsequently Expats are still living in Thailand with no insurance coverage at all and no money to pay for unexpected medical expenses. 

Well the moving of the goal posts too far is their mistake and their bad. Tourists should be required to have insurance and that would be based into their air ticket. what is apparent is these rich clowns do not care about foreigners and they do not care about anyone who is a Thai commoner as well. There was the proposition with the X-O or even with the O-A to be able to keep $100k in a bank for the uninsurable ones. I would tend to go t hat way if need being.

 

[Faz]

3 minutes ago, Malc-Thai said:

It was my retirement visa yearly renewal .. if "permission of stay " that's what it's called.. I could renew up to 45 days before it expired but now in phuket they allow up to 30 days before.. 

Malc you seriously need to read this educational topic.

Visa or Extension of stay. - > Visas, Long Stay, Extensions, Re-entry Permit - Thaiger Talk (thethaiger.com)

 

[AussieBob]

4 minutes ago, Faz said:

Thought you were married to a Thai.
Doesn't apply to extensions of stay based on marriage, or extensions based on an original Non Imm O Visa.

Yet?

[Faz]

6 minutes ago, BlueSphinx said:

When applying for the Non Imm O-A Visa - which can only be done at the Thai Embassy of your home-country or country of permanent residence - also foreign health-insurance is accepted  that meets the 400K/40K in/out-patient requirements.  But in such case your insurer has to fill-in and sign the Foreign Insurance Certificate, and since that FIC does refer to Thai legislation which your foreign insurer will not be familiar with many are reluctant to sign that document.

But once in Thailand  and when applying for the 1-year extension of stay based on your original Non Imm O-A Visa for reason of retirement, Thai Immigration will ONLY accept the 400K/40K health-insurance when issued by by a TGIA-associated THAI insurer.

Absolutely spot on @BlueSphinx

[Faz]

4 minutes ago, AussieBob said:

Yet?

Never apply to extensions of stay based on marriage in my opinion Bob.
They are issued on humanitarian grounds.
Never wondered why the financial requirement of 400K is half of that than for the 800K for retirement?

[ThailandBob]

14 minutes ago, Faz said:

Doesn't apply to extensions of stay based on marriage

I am on a O+A visa. Yes, I am married to a Thai. But I didn't like the idea that if my marriage went tits up, that I could be deported. So I chose O+A. 

The biggest mistake was deciding to move here. Turned out to be a poor choice regardless of visa type.

Edited October 20, 2021 by ThailandBob

[Soidog]

3 hours ago, Rob12 said:

This is going to greatly reduce the people who want to come to Thailand to retire. Much cheaper to retire in the Philippines and the cost of everything is already much lower there. This is not a very smart move. It may even cause a lot of people living in Thailand to leave the country. It certainly won't help the economy but only help the insurance companies.

I was considering retiring in Thailand but now I'm rethinking it with other options.

I’m just catching up with this news article. I suspect it will apply to Non-OA and not Non-O, but I wouldn’t be surprised if it did. In a strange way this helps me a little. I’m about 10 years away from the point where I would consider retirement. Thailand was slowly becoming the place I could see myself retiring to. Over recent years I have questioned the logic in doing that. If this is applicable to all Non Immigrant visas then the decision is made for me. 
 

I feel sorry for those who’s lives could be devastated at any moment by such a policy decision. I know many people who have been retired in Thailand for many years with homes and family and now in their late 70’s/80’s. Many have totally burnt all bridges with their home country and would simply have no way of living back home. I hope it’s not true, but the mere fact they are tinkering around with this would suggest it’s not a safe long term option for permanent retirement? 

[dmacarelli]

3 hours ago, Rob12 said:

This is going to greatly reduce the people who want to come to Thailand to retire. Much cheaper to retire in the Philippines and the cost of everything is already much lower there. This is not a very smart move. It may even cause a lot of people living in Thailand to leave the country. It certainly won't help the economy but only help the insurance companies.

I was considering retiring in Thailand but now I'm rethinking it with other options.

You are making the natural assumption that they want us here. I do not think that is the case, reflected by one policy implementation, after another. I think they would be happy if we all cleared out. Tens of thousands have already left, and according to a lawyer friend in Bangkok, tens of thousands are making arrangements to leave. The overall quality of life has declined here, it is more expensive than in the past, the government is as toxic and obnoxious, as they have ever been, and Covid has knocked alot of the luster off the place, in my opinion. I know alot of guys do not like hearing this, and there is nothing wrong with staying. But, we will have to continue to battle the authorities for the foreseeable future. Their xenophobia knows no bounds. 

Perhaps ex-pats should be given a bit more credit, in this formula? We do bring in alot of stable income.  Even the rural folks benefit. Alot of the nicer houses in the poorer farming areas were built with money from expats. Alot of trucks, cars and income is from expats. Countless business employing many. To say it is insignificant, is a blatant misunderstanding of Thai economics. Thousands of hotels, restaurants, countless airlines and many tour companies, also benefit. By comparison, an average ex-pat spends how much per month? I would say alot of us spend 50,000 to upwards of 100,000 baht a month. I know I do. No value in that? I know some live on less. However, since the average GDP of the nation is around $570, that means about 18,000 baht a month? It seems to mean nothing to the gazillionaires in charge. 

[Faz]

1 minute ago, ThailandBob said:

I am on a O+A visa. Yes, I am married to a Thai. But I didn't like the idea that if my marriage went tits up, that I could be deported. So I chose O+A. 

You can still switch to the Non O with no mandatory Health Insurance based on retirement.
800K in a Thai bank, or, 12 x 65K monthly overseas transfers, or, a combination of both totalling 800K for the year, or an Embassy Income letter (if not a UK, US or Australian national),
OR
stick with the new 3M proposed Health Insurance.

[Griff1315]

8 minutes ago, Faz said:

Never apply to extensions of stay based on marriage in my opinion Bob.
They are issued on humanitarian grounds.
Never wondered why the financial requirement of 400K is half of that than for the 800K for retirement?

Thai logic double the people probably more with children involved, then half the amount of capital required....

No complaints here suits me sir....

[ThailandBob]

I just had rotator cuff surgery. It was a biggie, too, 1 full thickness and 2 partial thickness tendon tears. It took 4 hours to repair. I had to spend 3 nights in the hospital -- Hua Hin Hospital. I paid out of pocket. Total bill? ฿101K. That is a fricking bargain. Even with Medicare I would have had pay 10 times that out-of-pocket in the US. In fact, when I was back there in June, I tried to get my Medicare plan to cover it. Cigna DENIED it and considered the procedure elective.

The medical care here is affordable, and I don't need insurance to pay for it. That's why I'm pissed off.

[BlueSphinx]

4 minutes ago, ThailandBob said:

I am on a O+A visa. Yes, I am married to a Thai. But I didn't like the idea that if my marriage went tits up, that I could be deported. So I chose O+A. 

The biggest mistake was deciding to move here. Turned out to be a poor choice regardless of visa type.

You are confusing two issues. 

#1 - When applying for a 90-day Non Imm O Visa (either in your home-country or after having entered Thailand VisaExempt or on a Tourist Visa) you have the option to do this for reason of RETIREMENT (i.e. being over 50 years of age) OR for reason of MARRIAGE to a Thai National OR for reason of Thai dependant children.  Depending on the REASON the requirements to be met for the Visa application are different.  And when applying for the 1-year extension of that 90-day Non Imm O Visa you have once again the choice for which reason you want to apply, and similarly the requirements are different depending on your choice for which reason you apply.

#2 - When you applied for the 1-year ME Non Imm O-A Visa in your home-country (or country of permanent residence) you can ONLY do this for reason of RETIREMENT.  But once you are in Thailand and want to apply for the 1-year extension of stay based on that original Non Imm O-A Visa you have - just like for the Non Imm O extension application - the choice to do this for different reasons (retirement / marriage / Thai dependant children).

Note: Some Immigration Offices (e.g. Phuket) might not allow you to switch the 'reason' for your very first extension application.

>> Even when you applied for reason of marriage (a considerable financial advantage when doing so) and the marriage goes bust, you will NOT be deported.  It would simply be a matter of applying at your next extension application for reason of retirement (provided you meet the requirements for such application). 

[HolyCowCm]

If  they don’t care about their own people why would they care about us. Their attitude is starting to look a lot like the Burma control freak(s). They burned all the money in this country already and are even trying to push it out of their own folk.  

[AussieBob]

23 minutes ago, Faz said:

Never apply to extensions of stay based on marriage in my opinion Bob.
They are issued on humanitarian grounds.
Never wondered why the financial requirement of 400K is half of that than for the 800K for retirement?

Maybe not Faz - especially if the Junta is booted in 2023.  But in regards to your point about humanitarian grounds, I have heard that before but I have never found any such reference or detail.  In fact the application for an O Visa includes for Marriage - and there is no refence to it being a humanitarian Visa.  Can you advise where this humanitarian issue comes from - any links or refences? 

[AussieBob]

25 minutes ago, ThailandBob said:

I am on a O+A visa. Yes, I am married to a Thai. But I didn't like the idea that if my marriage went tits up, that I could be deported. So I chose O+A. 

The biggest mistake was deciding to move here. Turned out to be a poor choice regardless of visa type.

Mate - you can still be deported if it goes tits up - depending on what happens. If the break-up is amicable, then I believe that you can switch to another type of stay permission (retirement) if you meet those requirements of course (which would include the insurance requirement).  

[Soidog]

9 minutes ago, dmacarelli said:

You are making the natural assumption that they want us here. I do not think that is the case, reflected by one policy implementation, after another. I think they would be happy if we all cleared out. Tens of thousands have already left, and according to a lawyer friend in Bangkok, tens of thousands are making arrangements to leave. The overall quality of life has declined here, it is more expensive than in the past, the government is as toxic and obnoxious, as they have ever been, and Covid has knocked alot of the luster off the place, in my opinion. I know alot of guys do not like hearing this, and there is nothing wrong with staying. But, we will have to continue to battle the authorities for the foreseeable future. Their xenophobia knows no bounds. 

Perhaps ex-pats should be given a bit more credit, in this formula? We do bring in alot of stable income.  Even the rural folks benefit. Alot of the nicer houses in the poorer farming areas were built with money from expats. Alot of trucks, cars and income is from expats. Countless business employing many. To say it is insignificant, is a blatant misunderstanding of Thai economics. Thousands of hotels, restaurants, countless airlines and many tour companies, also benefit. By comparison, an average ex-pat spends how much per month? I would say alot of us spend 50,000 to upwards of 100,000 baht a month. I know I do. No value in that? I know some live on less. However, since the average GDP of the nation is around $570, that means about 18,000 baht a month? It seems to mean nothing to the gazillionaires in charge. 

I’m not sure of the economic argument as I don’t have the figures to hand. However, my feeling is that the amount retired ex-pats contribute is relatively small in the overall economy? Perhaps someone could crunch the numbers? On a more local and personal level, removing retired ex-pats would cause significant financial hardship to many families. Such hardship of course would have no impact on the ruling elite as they perpetuate it as part of government policy on a regular basis.
 

In regard to your point about them wanting us here. I don’t think any country is particularly keen on importing a load of old people and letting them stay. There is ultimately little value for the country unless they are made to bring lots of money with them. I do however think that if you are someone who has been working and made a life in Thailand for many years and contributing to society, there should be a way to recognise that when it comes to retirement. In some way, that is what the distinction between an Non- O and Non-OA or Non-OX visa seems to attempt to do.

One thing that does sadden me about the problems foreigners have with all the visa and extension issues, is that I see little collective activity by partners, spouses and Thai families to influence policy.  If such a change were to happen in many western countries, there would be all sorts of campaign groups getting involved. The media would also see it as an attack on the elderly and unacceptable. They would be filling air time with stories of the hardship and suffering to the individual and families.  No such complaints, protests or action groups ever seem to exist in Thailand? 

Wherever you choose to live in the world, if you don’t have permanent residency as a minimum or achieved full nationality, things can change around you at any time making it difficult to stay. This being Thailand, there is of course other ways around the problem. Usually in the form of envelopes filled with cash.
 

Good luck to all those caught up in this.