News Forum - Tourists unsure about new 300-baht fee, question how money will be spent

[Vince]

On 1/17/2022 at 5:51 AM, Convert54 said:

In general terms I have held that opinion about most governments in general. While we all in general may have have objections based on perceptions the test is in persistence of presence in any expat locale. In reality  same applies to perceptions of origin if becoming "expat" is a tenable  alternative. No?

Exactly. If people stay, or keep coming, it's not bad enough to make people leave. 

Great point. 

[LoongFred]

9 hours ago, Poolie said:

No, I dont agree. Its not all cheapo's its the incessant moaners. They may co-incide and be moaners too, as well as cheapo's, but some people want everything cheapest and it must be now. They are the insufferables.

There's about 20 of them on here. All on ignore.

I agree with you. Some people are incessant moaners and whiners. They are also probably cheap. Even if it’s free they’ll find something like the serving were too small or the som Tom was spicy. I need to follow your lead and put them on ignore. They only want attention and it’s best to not give them any. 

[AMc]

On 1/17/2022 at 11:07 AM, nobusinessofurs said:

It should be 3000b, weed out some of the least undesirable

ahhhh,

"least undesirable" = desirable.

Ergo, weed out the desirable?

[AussieBob]

On 1/18/2022 at 9:52 AM, Vince said:

Costco - a US supermarket -  has a member fee $60USD. So, "you're wrong"? 

Thailand is special. 

There is no double pricing that doesn't exist anywhere else in the world in some form. That is a myth. 

There is no generalized foreigner resentment (more than would be expected given a 2 year global pandemic and every one is crazy with cabin fever).

And most countries have some bureaucratic hurdles* due to the COVID. These are being changed and adjusted. (* Except mexico apparently).

Agree with almost everything - but not the 'double pricing' or overcharging Foreigners compared to local Thais - it is a fact not a myth.  Home | 2PriceThailand  https://2pricethailand.com/

Yep - everyone has been imposing stupid rules worldwide, and when the pandemic started big time in early 2020, people would avoid walking near us when they saw that my wife was 'Asian'. 

[Vince]

9 hours ago, LoongFred said:

I agree with you. Some people are incessant moaners and whiners. They are also probably cheap. Even if it’s free they’ll find something like the serving were too small or the som Tom was spicy. I need to follow your lead and put them on ignore. They only want attention and it’s best to not give them any. 

They only want attention if they don't have to pay for it. :-) 

And I'm sure at any price they'll find fault with it.

But then I think I'm on @Poolie's ignore list :-) so maybe he means me :-D 

[AussieBob]

10 hours ago, Donald said:

Well I wasn't going to react, but I decided otherwise. I have made the experience that a lot of commentators here are more Papal then the Pope when it comes to defending their host country. I think they are collectively known as the Thai apologists. In it's own I think that is quite laudable. It should not however make one blind as to the reality of things. My example in my previous comment was obviously meant as a metaphor. To come to your points. That foreigners will experience having to pay higher prices as the locals for goods and services is indeed a practice found more or less everywhere in the world. Not nice but the way things are. Thailand however is the only country that actually does this with government approval. Of course I am referring to the entrance fees to visit park and other sites. That officially tourists are expected to pay a higher price is one thing, but foreigners that are long term residents are equally expected to fork out more. In all the countries I have traveled legal residents are treated equally to locals when dealing with the authorities and with regard to fees and other expenses. And I stick to my statement that here is a general resentment against foreigners. Maybe not so much by the local people, but by those representing the state apparatus. And when I was talking about bureaucratic hurdles I wasn't so much referring to the Covid related requirements, but more the constant harassment with regard to registration like TM 30 or the 90 day police reporting. This doesn't of course affect the average tourist on a 30 day entry stamp, but it does the Thousands of expats that contribute a lot to the economy of the kingdom.

Well said mate - and I recommend you 'ignore' the Thai apologists - they are illogical and nasty - any criticism and they go off at you. 

Yes there are some posters that whinge about everything and want/demand Thailand to be like 'back home', but most Expats I know are very much OK about most things - but they hate what the Junta has done and is doing to the ordinary Thais.  But when you criticise TAT, or any other crazy Junta policy, or the obvious silliness of something, , somehow those apologists take that as an insult against their Thai wife/gf/boyfriend and get offended and say 'why dont you leave' . 

Post of the Week:  "a lot of commentators here are more Papal then the Pope when it comes to defending their host country"   Brilliant !!  

[Vince]

1 minute ago, AussieBob said:

Agree with almost everything - but not the 'double pricing' or overcharging Foreigners compared to local Thais - it is a fact not a myth.  Home | 2PriceThailand  https://2pricethailand.com/

Yep - everyone has been imposing stupid rules worldwide, and when the pandemic started big time in early 2020, people would avoid walking near us when they saw that my wife was 'Asian'. 

Your website '2pricethsiland' shows signs for tourist sites with 1 or 2 or 3 prices, and this is the proof of what? 

I've given multiple examples of business and government dual pricing outside of Thailand. It's not unique to Thailand and it's common and no big deal. 

In an American diner police are given up to a 50% off to encourage a police presence to deter crime. That's a double price isn't it? 

In an American city owned garden local city residents get in free while tourists from other cities (and countries!) have to pay. That's a double price, no? 

If all the locals were white and all tourists were Thai, Thais might scream "This is a racist anti-Thai double pricing!!!" But locals pay taxes. Tourists don't. 

At your local pub, seniors or local students might get 10% off - isn't that a double price? 

Double pricing is all over. It's not always "fair" and it may create a bad customer experience, but it's not a racist Thai practice to punish and degrade foreigners as some have suggested. 

 

 

 

 

[Vince]

11 minutes ago, AussieBob said:

Well said mate - and I recommend you 'ignore' the Thai apologists - they are illogical and nasty - any criticism and they go off at you. 

Yes there are some posters that whinge about everything and want/demand Thailand to be like 'back home', but most Expats I know are very much OK about most things - but they hate what the Junta has done and is doing to the ordinary Thais.  But when you criticise TAT, or any other crazy Junta policy, or the obvious silliness of something, , somehow those apologists take that as an insult against their Thai wife/gf/boyfriend and get offended and say 'why dont you leave' . 

Post of the Week:  "a lot of commentators here are more Papal then the Pope when it comes to defending their host country"   Brilliant !!  

Love it or leave it is a bad response.

Trying to explain why the reasonable complaints might have more than one explanation is better. 

Unreasonable complaints can be ignored. 

[Rain]

41 minutes ago, AussieBob said:

Well said mate - and I recommend you 'ignore' the Thai apologists - they are illogical and nasty - any criticism and they go off at you. 

Yes there are some posters that whinge about everything and want/demand Thailand to be like 'back home', but most Expats I know are very much OK about most things - but they hate what the Junta has done and is doing to the ordinary Thais.  But when you criticise TAT, or any other crazy Junta policy, or the obvious silliness of something, , somehow those apologists take that as an insult against their Thai wife/gf/boyfriend and get offended and say 'why dont you leave' . 

Post of the Week:  "a lot of commentators here are more Papal then the Pope when it comes to defending their host country"   Brilliant !!  

I believe you'll find that the Eurocentric apologists to be much more illogical and nasty - and ignorant - by their very nature.

[AussieBob]

7 hours ago, Vince said:

Your website '2pricethsiland' shows signs for tourist sites with 1 or 2 or 3 prices, and this is the proof of what? 

I've given multiple examples of business and government dual pricing outside of Thailand. It's not unique to Thailand and it's common and no big deal. 

In an American diner police are given up to a 50% off to encourage a police presence to deter crime. That's a double price isn't it? 

In an American city owned garden local city residents get in free while tourists from other cities (and countries!) have to pay. That's a double price, no? 

If all the locals were white and all tourists were Thai, Thais might scream "This is a racist anti-Thai double pricing!!!" But locals pay taxes. Tourists don't. 

At your local pub, seniors or local students might get 10% off - isn't that a double price? 

Double pricing is all over. It's not always "fair" and it may create a bad customer experience, but it's not a racist Thai practice to punish and degrade foreigners as some have suggested. 

That website is run by Richard Barrow and it shows all the locations he is aware of that charge 'dual-pricing'. One price for Thais and another price for 'Farangs'.

You point is valid about pricing variations all over the place, but you are missing the point with regards to why. All your examples are for specific people -not for their 'race' or 'colour'. In Thailand they charge extra in a lot of places to anyone that is a 'foreigner' and the their definition of a foreigner is the issue (it is based on race and colour). My wife and I played golf regularly with a Caddy who was from Myanmar, and she always got the 'Thai price' - because she looked like a Thai - same for Laos and Cambodians and many other Asians. They charge extra for white or black 'Farangs' based on their looks and race - and that is the heart of the issue - and it is why long term residents and citizens like Richard are very annoyed about it all.

[LoongFred]

On 1/17/2022 at 10:40 PM, BIGGLES said:

We all know it's a scam/ tea money. 

If attractions have been popular in previous years, then they should have invested in amenities already, if they don't have toilets now, why would having them now,  make the attraction more appealing?

As for the low flying pig called insurance for tourists, all I can say about that is good luck if you need to use it, as the most fluent English  speaking Thai will suddenly not understand what you are talking about.

It will happen, it will not change, except to go up over time.

Pay up, shut up, drink up and enjoy or don't go!

It's interesting that most of the whiners are not in Thailand.  They are mostly stuck in the UK but can't come. They object to quarantines in spit of out of control of covid at home. They complain about the new 300 baht arrival fee, they complain that things are not like at home.  Why do they come or can't they find a girl at home.

Need to stop the whine and make decision to come and never complain or stay home. 

My only complaint is that I occasional see one of these guys, but do my best to avoid them. I'm  generally a friendly guy who's easy to make friends, but I've learned to be selective.

[Rain]

3 hours ago, AussieBob said:

That website is run by Richard Barrow and it shows all the locations he is aware of that charge 'dual-pricing'. One price for Thais and another price for 'Farangs'.

You point is valid about pricing variations all over the place, but you are missing the point with regards to why. All your examples are for specific people -not for their 'race' or 'colour'. In Thailand they charge extra in a lot of places to anyone that is a 'foreigner' and the their definition of a foreigner is the issue (it is based on race and colour). My wife and I played golf regularly with a Caddy who was from Myanmar, and she always got the 'Thai price' - because she looked like a Thai - same for Laos and Cambodians and many other Asians. They charge extra for white or black 'Farangs' based on their looks and race - and that is the heart of the issue - and it is why long term residents and citizens like Richard are very annoyed about it all.

It's just the way it is. Easier on one's soul to accept the fact instead of seeing everything through political comparatives. Any difference in pricing isn't that exorbitant - never has been. 

BTW, I [like many intelligent folks] find the unknowledgeable and Boy-Scoutish manner of Mr. Barrow to be rather annoying......even disturbing, in many instances. 

[Rangers]

Why would people be unsure of it? A lot of countries are doing it now and Thailands tourist tax is a lot less. A grand total of £6 isn't going to put anyone off visiting Thailand 

[Stonker]

 

 

 

 

On 1/18/2022 at 6:52 AM, Vince said:

There is no double pricing that doesn't exist anywhere else in the world in some form. That is a myth. 

 

 

12 hours ago, AussieBob said:

Agree with almost everything - but not the 'double pricing' or overcharging Foreigners compared to local Thais - it is a fact not a myth. 

 

Correct @Vince - a complete myth.  I've taken the liberty of reversing the 'bold' in your comment which may make it clearer to some.

[oldschooler]

49 minutes ago, Rain said:

It's just the way it is. Easier on one's soul to accept the fact instead of seeing everything through political comparatives. Any difference in pricing isn't that exorbitant - never has been. 

BTW, I [like many intelligent folks] find the unknowledgeable and Boy-Scoutish manner of Mr. Barrow to be rather annoying......even disturbing, in many instances. 

Wasn’t this little Dudley DoRight twerp denied citizenship for his constant unwelcome Thai commentaries ? He’s quite hard to read and seems to fight on everything. so high profile here he can’t be deported…..this double pricing issue is typical of his crusading Don Quixote windmill charging….doesn’t serve me at all.  

[oldschooler]

12 hours ago, Vince said:

Your website '2pricethsiland' shows signs for tourist sites with 1 or 2 or 3 prices, and this is the proof of what? 

I've given multiple examples of business and government dual pricing outside of Thailand. It's not unique to Thailand and it's common and no big deal. 

In an American diner police are given up to a 50% off to encourage a police presence to deter crime. That's a double price isn't it? 

In an American city owned garden local city residents get in free while tourists from other cities (and countries!) have to pay. That's a double price, no? 

If all the locals were white and all tourists were Thai, Thais might scream "This is a racist anti-Thai double pricing!!!" But locals pay taxes. Tourists don't. 

At your local pub, seniors or local students might get 10% off - isn't that a double price? 

Double pricing is all over. It's not always "fair" and it may create a bad customer experience, but it's not a racist Thai practice to punish and degrade foreigners as some have suggested. 

Absolutely…. “Punish & degrade foreigners” is an exclusive Immigration & Municipal task !

[Stonker]

4 hours ago, AussieBob said:

You point is valid about pricing variations all over the place, but you are missing the point with regards to why. All your examples are for specific people -not for their 'race' or 'colour'. In Thailand they charge extra in a lot of places to anyone that is a 'foreigner' and the their definition of a foreigner is the issue (it is based on race and colour).

Completely untrue.

It has nothing whatsoever to do with anyone's "definition of a foreigner" being "based on race and colour" - there is NO such "definition" and it's purely down to whether you're a Thai or a foreigner. Nothing else.

A Thai national will be charged the Thai price regardless of their "race and colour", although to save time and asking everyone to show an ID card or passport those who the cashier thinks "look" like Thais will generally not be asked to prove it, while those who don't may be.  To do otherwise would waste an absurd amount of time and be a serious invasion of privacy.

A foreigner will be charged the foreign price, unless they want to chance their luck and be accepted as Thais based on appearance / language - someone who looks like a Thai in a tour group will be charged exactly the same as everyone else in the tour group.

4 hours ago, AussieBob said:

They charge extra for white or black 'Farangs' based on their looks and race - and that is the heart of the issue - and it is why long term residents and citizens like Richard are very annoyed about it all.

No, they "charge extra" for ALL "'Farangs'", but some are fortunate enough to get away with pretending to be Thais, just as many from Myanmar, Laos and elsewhere do.

Very few long term residents care less about it, but a few like Richard Barrow (who's even more of an unpleasant whinger in the flesh than he is on the 'net) whinge about it because they can't get away with it while others can.

 

[oldschooler]

4 minutes ago, Stonker said:

Completely untrue.

It has nothing whatsoever to do with anyone's "definition of a foreigner" being "based on race and colour" - there is NO such "definition" and it's purely down to whether you're a Thai or a foreigner. Nothing else.

A Thai national will be charged the Thai price regardless of their "race and colour", although to save time and asking everyone to show an ID card or passport those who the cashier thinks "look" like Thais will generally not be asked to prove it, while those who don't may be.  To do otherwise would waste an absurd amount of time and be a serious invasion of privacy.

A foreigner will be charged the foreign price, unless they want to chance their luck and be accepted as Thais based on appearance / language - someone who looks like a Thai in a tour group will be charged exactly the same as everyone else in the tour group.

No, they "charge extra" for ALL "'Farangs'", but some are fortunate enough to get away with pretending to be Thais, just as many from Myanmar, Laos and elsewhere do.

Very few long term residents care less about it, but a few like Richard Barrow (who's even more of an unpleasant whinger in the flesh than he is on the 'net) whinge about it because they can't get away with it while others can.

DP mostly avoided with the Foreigner Pink National ID. 

[Rain]

17 minutes ago, oldschooler said:

Wasn’t this little Dudley DoRight twerp denied citizenship for his constant unwelcome Thai commentaries ? He’s quite hard to read and seems to fight on everything. so high profile here he can’t be deported…..this double pricing issue is typical of his crusading Don Quixote windmill charging….doesn’t serve me at all.  

Should've deport 'im several months ago when they had the chance. 

You'll recall......that affair was largely staged part of the play. 

[Vince]

4 hours ago, AussieBob said:

That website is run by Richard Barrow and it shows all the locations he is aware of that charge 'dual-pricing'. One price for Thais and another price for 'Farangs'.

You point is valid about pricing variations all over the place, but you are missing the point with regards to why. All your examples are for specific people -not for their 'race' or 'colour'. In Thailand they charge extra in a lot of places to anyone that is a 'foreigner' and the their definition of a foreigner is the issue (it is based on race and colour). My wife and I played golf regularly with a Caddy who was from Myanmar, and she always got the 'Thai price' - because she looked like a Thai - same for Laos and Cambodians and many other Asians. They charge extra for white or black 'Farangs' based on their looks and race - and that is the heart of the issue - and it is why long term residents and citizens like Richard are very annoyed about it all.

My point is not rebutted from casual or even "racist" implementation. A non-racist rationale may exist behind a unfair implementation. 

For example:

If lazy or even racist ticket collectors at the city botanical gardens don't bother to check licenses or passports (the current method to check residents who are free) but instead glanced at Tourists who were mostly Thai, and charged the tourist rate (high), and most residents were white, and charged white foreign tourists the "local"(low) rate assuming they were residents (or being racists wanted to encourage whites) it would be the same reason for dual pricing - locals pay taxes, tourists don't. It's not to oppress Thais, make them feel unwelcome, or discourage them from looking at flowers. Someone just doesn't want to check ID. Or a single person could have "racist" intent (who knows? I'm not going to claim it doesn't exist) - but the policy is not proven racist merely by structure or uneven implementation.

A sloppy or even racist(!) ticketer doesn't change the reason or function for dual pricing which may be reasonable or arbitrary (and not racist). 

My point is that the rationale for dual pricing - it's function - my be quite reasonable (or wholly arbitrary business decisions, or sloppy communication about pricing in the case of seafood, or haggling). 

You are focused solely on the structure. This is wrong. A reasonable (or unreasonable non-racist) reason for local discount (or inconsistent) pricing may exist, and careless or arbitrary or uneven implementation of who is defined as "local" doesn't change that fact. 

Looking at a sign and coming to a conclusion about intent is simply not correct. 

There are valid reasons - even if you don't agree with them - for dual pricing. 

If you get a free donut on your birthday, but it's only for town residents, and you forget your driver's license, and the low paid cashier thinks you "seem like a local" and gives you a free donut,  the decision to give out free donuts to locals on their birthday isn't "racist" even if locals like you are all Thai and non-locals mostly aren't. 

 

 

[Stonker]

7 minutes ago, oldschooler said:

DP mostly avoided with the Foreigner Pink National ID. 

I may be tempted to get one - on the other hand, I can't think of anywhere within a few hundred kms of where I am that has dual pricing .

[oldschooler]

13 minutes ago, Stonker said:

I may be tempted to get one - on the other hand, I can't think of anywhere within a few hundred kms of where I am that has dual pricing .

Exactly. Effectively no material benefit not provided by Passport / TDL combo.
Except no Imm. COR needed anymore …..Not into National Parks….
Got my House Yellow Book / Pink ID as a kind of “special project”.
12 wk bureaucratic humiliation ordeal for myself & my Thai Lady at Municipal for YB. Interior ministry was one hour interrogation for the ID after YB. 
Best single regular Thai Document=Driving License  ! 

[Buttaxe]

On 1/17/2022 at 12:17 PM, Benroon said:

If you think Thailand is always asking for money, don't even think of going to the UK where just to fart will attract 28 different types of tax ! The professional whingers here not paying any tax bills, cheap petrol even now, paying 7% VAT, just don't know how good they've got it. 

As for the 'National Parks' mantra - jesus wept I would bet anything that the vast majority of the whingers haven't set foot in a national park but they've read on the forums about some perceived scam and decided that will do as my next whinge ! 

Benroon here is your typical FUT: Farang Uncle Tom. For Ben no discriminatory price is too high and no secondary status is too low. Thais love Ben.

[Rain]

58 minutes ago, oldschooler said:

DP mostly avoided with the Foreigner Pink National ID. 

Sure. A pink card has it's moments - 

[Poolie]

13 hours ago, Vince said:

They only want attention if they don't have to pay for it. :-) 

And I'm sure at any price they'll find fault with it.

But then I think I'm on @Poolie's ignore list :-) so maybe he means me :-D 

No. I spared you that honour.