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News Forum - Recovery of Thailand’s international tourism sector likely to take years


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9 hours ago, yselmike said:

The thread is really about the tourist industry,I get it that guy's who have wives and kids or maybe a business,condo are desperate to get back.

Those of us who come as a tourist,a two week millionaire,or a few months snowbird should in all probability not be traveling at all.We have no control over what is going down with this pandemic,or any controls or rules that governments impose on the international travel industry or movements domestically, T.I.T.

Well said and a good summary.  The thing I would add, and the reason I am so 'active' on this forum and others, is because TAT is not fully informing tourists (deliberately).  They are making up all sorts of stories that many media organisations (just like The Thaiger) are publishing word for word with little/no journalistic input. Their basic story is that Thailand is open for tourists quarantine free and the pubs and clubs are open again.

The following article by TAT updates their previous 'marketing', adding that test results can take up to 48 hours. What is not mentioned, and never has been, is exactly what happens when/if you test positive.  None of the 'bad' details are advised - they just blatantly dont say anything. The sad fact is that people are deciding to travel based on assumptions and misinformation.  There was one Aussie couple and their kids that went to Thailand on the first flight from Sydney - for 6 days !!  Unbelievable. I bet a house to a brick, that if you sat them down before they decided to go, and explained what would happen if they or any of their unvaccinated kids tested positive, they would be astonished - and very likely they would not have travelled. That is my issue - TAT are not telling everyone the whole story. 

https://www.tatnews.org/2021/10/thailand-reopening-exemption-from-quarantine-test-go/

Compare that to Fiji - where it is clearly detailed what happens to you if you test positive or get Covid. It is not hidden in the Ts and Cs like an Insurance Contract - it is out in the open and there for you to make a decision.  Mine would be the same to Fiji - no thank you. I dont want 10 days of quarantine to be a possibility if I am unlucky enough to test positive on arrival even though I am asymptomatic. 

https://www.fiji.travel/articles/frequently-asked-questions-travelling-to-fiji

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On 12/7/2021 at 4:19 AM, TheDirtyDurian said:

It is an opaque process.......

Yeah, took 3 full days to get the wifes Thai Pass application with a Singapore Vaccine Certificate, approved in the end. Still waiting for the final approval for one more Singaporean in our party.

One gottcha to watch out for is the at least 7 days means 7 "working days".

Having gone through the Thai Pass process I can see it putting a lot of people off. Having to book everything upfront before applying for a Thai Pass is an issue. Its often not possible to book everything fully refundable. Often the only option is tickets that allow rebooking different dates. Fine if you can be very flexible with your travel.

I prefer the Singapore VTP system, where you apply for a pass first, based on your vaccine certificate, and intended date of travel. Then once approved can book a flight within 7 days of the intended date. Obviously responsibility is still on you to bring all required documentation, insurance, PCR test result, PCR test booking with you to the airport.

If Thailand wants tourists to return, just make the Thai Pass process less uncertain. I have no problem with the requirements, insurance, testing etc, just make it easier to line up all the ducks. Didn't the old COE have some kind of pre-approval?

Travelling is no longer like catching a bus :-(

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Anyone in the travel industry should diversify.  Real tourism in Thailand will be signifantly reduced, for the next couple of years. Many of those now coming apparently have some family ties and aren't real tourists. Tourist places are seriously impacted and many closed, especially those looking for the drinking/bar scenes  along with anyplace where covid transmission would be high.

It's all adds up to trouble in the tourist industries.

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1 hour ago, Nightflame said:

Having to book everything upfront before applying for a Thai Pass is an issue.

I'm already here so obviously it's not an issue for me, but what what exactly do you have to book "upfront" that's so much of an issue?

As far as I'm aware all you have to book if vaccinated is three things: your insurance, your flight, and your Day 1 'package' which includes the transport from airport to hotel and your PCR test on arrival all of which are arranged by the hotel.

If unvaccinated, which few tourists will be, then it's still three things: your insurance, your flight, and your SQ / ASQ package.

Yes, it's no longer "like catching a bus" but is that really all that difficult?

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38 minutes ago, Stonker said:

As far as I'm aware all you have to book if vaccinated is three things: your insurance, your flight, and your Day 1 'package'

 but is that really all that difficult?

No that's it. All booked and paid for upfront. One of our party Thai Pass was rejected due to the AIG insurance certificate provided via Singapore Airlines partner AIG. Not quite sure why, rejection says "its not clear". Its a crystal clear PNG. Maybe the certificate wording? Probably should have gone with AXA TH. It seems that they have to re-apply from scratch which can take another 3-7 days. Will try the 24-hour hotline(s)...

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On 12/8/2021 at 11:15 AM, Marc26 said:

Yeah that's why I booked Sofitel when landing 

If I'm chucked in a hotel, I'd want it to be Bumrugard 

But I don't know how it would work on departure 

Because I would be booking the tests independently 

Or maybe if I had the last hotel arrange the test, than it would be the same hospital also that gave me the test

Like the other BM, I'm just trying to find rhe best situation in case something came up 

Entered Phuket 3 weeks ago Paul.

Spend 2 nights in Pullman Naithong. Nice seaview roomwith terrace and long seat, easy to spend 4 1/2 hours while waiting PCR result. After 2 days to the rented house in Kathu.

Been once to Patong for seafood, but didn’t go to Bangla as I saw to many farangs not warng mask.

PCR test for leaving will not be a problem. Just google it and you will find a lot. Price for farangs seems to be 2700-3200 Baht.

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On 12/7/2021 at 2:24 AM, AdvocatusDiaboli said:

Please don’t say that, as TAT will come out with another statistical statement ….. of how many will occur next year .

To late AdvocatusDiaboli TAT governor Yuthasak Supasorn according to him a quick survey said it is more confident travelling with over 50% now vaccinated and Eastern provinces CAN expect 360,000 visitors this weekend generating 1.4 billion baht from 270,000 domestic travelers the word Domestic means internal not Tourists. MMMM crystal balls been polished again.

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41 minutes ago, vlad said:

To late AdvocatusDiaboli TAT governor Yuthasak Supasorn according to him a quick survey said

But yet to say or predict how many TAT statisticians will have a heart attack next year though!

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1 hour ago, Alavan said:

Entered Phuket 3 weeks ago Paul.

Spend 2 nights in Pullman Naithong. Nice seaview roomwith terrace and long seat, easy to spend 4 1/2 hours while waiting PCR result. After 2 days to the rented house in Kathu.

Been once to Patong for seafood, but didn’t go to Bangla as I saw to many farangs not warng mask.

PCR test for leaving will not be a problem. Just google it and you will find a lot. Price for farangs seems to be 2700-3200 Baht.

Yeah Ao got a PCR test in her area of Bangkok before flying to Boston this summer 

 

The Canadian Embassy had an extensive list of places to go to 

 

Glad you made in back in Phuket

 

How long are you there for ?

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On 12/7/2021 at 11:42 AM, Jayce said:

I actually didn't know that wasn't the case. I was still basing myself off information that I had read here quite some time ago! Thanks for pointing that out. Still not great to be put in a hospital though even if insurance pays for it. I assume insurance won't cover someone from losing the money from the original accomodation booking. And even if you would be able to recoup that money, I don't have enough leave to be able to rebook any accomodation for after I get out of hospital. Don't relish the thought of spending my entire holiday in a hospital and then having to head back home.

Marc, that may be an obvious non-fact to you, but this is the first I'm hearing about it as I don't dedicate my life this forum...

Don't get me wrong, very glad to read this was all BS, but I've not even come across a Thaiger news article that has pointed this out. Might have missed it, but it would be worth having a "myths and facts" news article done by theThaiger on this.

Regardless of being put in a hospital or hotel by Thai government, I'm not willing to run the risk of having paid for my villa, not getting my money back (which I assume the insurance won't cover) and then being stuck in a substandard accomodation that I can't get out of. I mean, if it's not even clear who decides whether you go to a hospital or a hotel and on what basis that decision gets made, then why should we have any confidence at all?

Same applies to the "sitting near an infected person on the plane ride over" scenario. Why can't this be more clearly articulated? Is it sitting next to or in close proximity? Or is just merely sitting on the same plane enough?? Is it 7 days or 14 quarantine? Is it after 1 or 2 PCR tests?? So many unknowns! How can people make plans off of that and decide whether it's worth the gamble or not.

I would argue only those who love to gamble or those who have enough time to be able to stay overseas and/or have enough money are happy to accept the uncertainty of it all.

While we're at it, can someone also please clarify what happens if you test positive on the 72 hour PCR test that one needs to take to leave Thailand (depending on the destination of course). If the destination mandates such a test and you test positive, what happens then? Does the Thai PCR testing center need to report this and you basically get stuck in a Thai hospital or hotel again??

You are obviously saying you don't want to come the Thailand. With your preconceived  fears, the worse is bound to happen and you'll have a miserable time. Thailand is trying to deal with this problem for everyone's benefit, not just yours. 

If you come you're bound to be disappointed and will blame Thailand when you should accept responsibility yourself.

My advice is to wait until all covid restrictions are gone and vacation elsewhere in the mean time.

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2 hours ago, Marc26 said:

Yeah Ao got a PCR test in her area of Bangkok before flying to Boston this summer 

The Canadian Embassy had an extensive list of places to go to 

Glad you made in back in Phuket

How long are you there for ?

Leaving Wednesday. Hope to come back end February-March.

didn’t go Bangla. To many drunk people without mask.

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4 hours ago, Stonker said:

I'm already here so obviously it's not an issue for me, but what what exactly do you have to book "upfront" that's so much of an issue?

As far as I'm aware all you have to book if vaccinated is three things: your insurance, your flight, and your Day 1 'package' which includes the transport from airport to hotel and your PCR test on arrival all of which are arranged by the hotel.

If unvaccinated, which few tourists will be, then it's still three things: your insurance, your flight, and your SQ / ASQ package.

Yes, it's no longer "like catching a bus" but is that really all that difficult?

No but! The having to book the most expensive flight that allows cancellation with a full refund 12-24 hours before departure,in the event of a positive COVID test,that does focus the mind somewhat.Also pre booking hotels to get a good deal may not be so easy because you need to do some research beforehand to check they are actually open,not forgetting deals may not be available because of paying higher rates for the deals that allow a full refund,if you test positive at the airport.I have spent the flight money on a home trainer exercise bike.

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38 minutes ago, yselmike said:

No but! The having to book the most expensive flight that allows cancellation with a full refund 12-24 hours before departure,in the event of a positive COVID test,that does focus the mind somewhat.Also pre booking hotels to get a good deal may not be so easy because you need to do some research beforehand to check they are actually open,not forgetting deals may not be available because of paying higher rates for the deals that allow a full refund,if you test positive at the airport.I have spent the flight money on a home trainer exercise bike.

Well ... umm ... I assumed most people would check if a hotel was open before trying to pre-book it to get a good deal ... maybe I'm expecting too much 😢.

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25 minutes ago, Stonker said:

Well ... umm ... I assumed most people would check if a hotel was open before trying to pre-book it to get a good deal ... maybe I'm expecting too much 😢.

I mostly book through an agency like the ugly sisters,agoda and booking.com.There were reports of hotels taking booking and deposits even when closed,I guess that's not the case now.

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1 hour ago, yselmike said:

I mostly book through an agency like the ugly sisters,agoda and booking.com.There were reports of hotels taking booking and deposits even when closed,I guess that's not the case now.

Plenty of reputable hotels are in the Test&Go

If you aren't familiar with Bangkok and don't know a lot of the hotels, let me know the area you want to stay in and I can recommend a few for you that you won't need to worry 

 

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14 hours ago, AussieBob said:

Well said and a good summary.  The thing I would add, and the reason I am so 'active' on this forum and others, is because TAT is not fully informing tourists (deliberately).  They are making up all sorts of stories that many media organisations (just like The Thaiger) are publishing word for word with little/no journalistic input. Their basic story is that Thailand is open for tourists quarantine free and the pubs and clubs are open again.

The following article by TAT updates their previous 'marketing', adding that test results can take up to 48 hours. What is not mentioned, and never has been, is exactly what happens when/if you test positive.  None of the 'bad' details are advised - they just blatantly dont say anything. The sad fact is that people are deciding to travel based on assumptions and misinformation.  There was one Aussie couple and their kids that went to Thailand on the first flight from Sydney - for 6 days !!  Unbelievable. I bet a house to a brick, that if you sat them down before they decided to go, and explained what would happen if they or any of their unvaccinated kids tested positive, they would be astonished - and very likely they would not have travelled. That is my issue - TAT are not telling everyone the whole story. 

https://www.tatnews.org/2021/10/thailand-reopening-exemption-from-quarantine-test-go/

Compare that to Fiji - where it is clearly detailed what happens to you if you test positive or get Covid. It is not hidden in the Ts and Cs like an Insurance Contract - it is out in the open and there for you to make a decision.  Mine would be the same to Fiji - no thank you. I dont want 10 days of quarantine to be a possibility if I am unlucky enough to test positive on arrival even though I am asymptomatic. 

https://www.fiji.travel/articles/frequently-asked-questions-travelling-to-fiji

Thailand's guidelines are pretty much the exact same as Fiji's if you test positive.

Both can't tell you with 100% certainty where you may end up......

Fiji:

 

 

If you’re staying at a Care Fiji Commitment (CFC) property, alert your resort’s Wellness Ambassador. They have plans and procedures in place that can help you isolate comfortably in your resort. They will put you in touch with the relevant medical authorities. 

The CFC provides the highest standard of health and safety to our visitors. This includes access to isolation facilities and medical care such as testing, routine staff swabbing, escalation protocols in the event of positive cases by private medical practitioners affiliated with the property. 

If you test positive for COVID-19 while in Fiji, national guidelines will determine further testing and you will need to do 10 days of isolation.  In that case, you will need to advise your travel insurer, rebook flights and amend accommodation. 

If symptoms progress, you may be treated in your room, or at dedicated medical facilities for further monitoring and care. 

Once you test negative, post the isolation stay, you will be free to return home. 

 

Thailand:

 

 

If you test positive for COVID-19 and have mild symptoms or are asymptomatic, Thai authorities recommend that you self-isolate at home or in a community setting dedicated to this such as a school or temple, where you can receive appropriate care. This also applies to school age children. National Health Security Office (NHSO) provides medical support and services for home isolation. To register, you can call the 1330 hotline.

If you have more severe symptoms Thai public health regulations require that you quarantine at either a hospital, hospitel (a repurposed hotel with medical capabilities) or field hospital.

 

 

It is impossible for a country to give a 100% concrete answer because every case is different. It literally has to be assessed on a case by case basis

 

 

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I am a Snowbird type of visitor. I want to stay 4 months in Thailand to escape the Canadian winter. But there is no visa offered for that kind of visit. The visa on arrival is for 30 days only. The tourist visa is for 60 days only. There is a multiple entry tourist visa but you need to prove a need to re-enter. So you have to buy a ticket from Bangkok to (say) Phnom Penh return for the middle of that 4 month period to "prove" a need to re-enter. Plus one must apply for the TR visa on-line and it is very complicated. One must upload a dozen documents, photos, etc. If they want tourists why do they make it so difficult ? I'm thinking of going to some other country where they make it easy to visit. 

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17 hours ago, Marc26 said:

Thailand's guidelines are pretty much the exact same as Fiji's if you test positive.

Both can't tell you with 100% certainty where you may end up......

Fiji:

If you’re staying at a Care Fiji Commitment (CFC) property, alert your resort’s Wellness Ambassador. They have plans and procedures in place that can help you isolate comfortably in your resort. They will put you in touch with the relevant medical authorities. 

The CFC provides the highest standard of health and safety to our visitors. This includes access to isolation facilities and medical care such as testing, routine staff swabbing, escalation protocols in the event of positive cases by private medical practitioners affiliated with the property. 

If you test positive for COVID-19 while in Fiji, national guidelines will determine further testing and you will need to do 10 days of isolation.  In that case, you will need to advise your travel insurer, rebook flights and amend accommodation. 

If symptoms progress, you may be treated in your room, or at dedicated medical facilities for further monitoring and care. 

Once you test negative, post the isolation stay, you will be free to return home. 

Thailand:

If you test positive for COVID-19 and have mild symptoms or are asymptomatic, Thai authorities recommend that you self-isolate at home or in a community setting dedicated to this such as a school or temple, where you can receive appropriate care. This also applies to school age children. National Health Security Office (NHSO) provides medical support and services for home isolation. To register, you can call the 1330 hotline.

If you have more severe symptoms Thai public health regulations require that you quarantine at either a hospital, hospitel (a repurposed hotel with medical capabilities) or field hospital.

It is impossible for a country to give a 100% concrete answer because every case is different. It literally has to be assessed on a case by case basis

Please show me exactly where what you wrote about Thailand is written on the website that I gave you:

https://www.tatnews.org/2021/10/thailand-reopening-exemption-from-quarantine-test-go/

OR please show me exactly where it is written on this website or the Thailand Pass too:

https://www.tourismthailand.org/home

What I gave you is clearly written and easy to see on the Fiji website.

THAT is the point - TAT are not being clear and upfront about what happens if you test positive - Fiji is being clear and upfront (honest).

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Lots of information being spread and gossiping.  It effectively scares off a lot of traffic. Most worry about a positive covid test on arrival. However, the consequences of not testing would be disaster. Best for people who are afraid to stay home. 

A lot of talk in the foreign Thai community.  

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On 12/7/2021 at 11:14 PM, eldencrowe said:

Hello - new here.  I have planned a stay in Phuket from Jan 1 to the 10th.  Am considering retirement in Phuket (my ex-wife gets half my assets in the pending divorce so retirement in the US just got real thin).

Anyway - I must have missed the new flash about getting incarcerated if I sit next to a positive case on my 50 some odd hour flight.  can someone elaborate?

Next dumb question:  I'd like to talk to some ex-pats in Patong to get a unvarnished idea about what living in Phuket / Thailand is like.  any particular part of Dodge I need to go to?

been here off & on since 2004. House / Business / Family. Recommend south- west coast below Patong. best beaches are Kata & Karon. Rawai might suit. Lovely pretty expat area on south coast. Kata / Rawai Hills are very nice places to have a Pool Villa with hill / jungle/ seaviews and away from locals. Dont live in Patong except perhaps high up on the hill overlooking the town and sea.

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8 hours ago, Bangkok_Gary said:

I am a Snowbird type of visitor. I want to stay 4 months in Thailand to escape the Canadian winter. But there is no visa offered for that kind of visit. The visa on arrival is for 30 days only. The tourist visa is for 60 days only. There is a multiple entry tourist visa but you need to prove a need to re-enter. So you have to buy a ticket from Bangkok to (say) Phnom Penh return for the middle of that 4 month period to "prove" a need to re-enter. Plus one must apply for the TR visa on-line and it is very complicated. One must upload a dozen documents, photos, etc. If they want tourists why do they make it so difficult ? I'm thinking of going to some other country where they make it easy to visit. 

They DO want tourists. 

They DON'T want you to stay for four months. 

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6 hours ago, AussieBob said:

Please show me exactly where what you wrote about Thailand is written on the website that I gave you:

https://www.tatnews.org/2021/10/thailand-reopening-exemption-from-quarantine-test-go/

OR please show me exactly where it is written on this website or the Thailand Pass too:

https://www.tourismthailand.org/home

What I gave you is clearly written and easy to see on the Fiji website.

THAT is the point - TAT are not being clear and upfront about what happens if you test positive - Fiji is being clear and upfront (honest).

Yes I agree there should be a clear notice from TAT or Thailand on what happens

 

But from all indications, both countries treat a positive test result exactly the same

And each is not 100% set in stone on what happens, because it all is on a case by case basis

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9 hours ago, Marc26 said:

Yes I agree there should be a clear notice from TAT or Thailand on what happens

But from all indications, both countries treat a positive test result exactly the same

And each is not 100% set in stone on what happens, because it all is on a case by case basis

Thanks for agreeing Marc.  Some people will say that TAT are incompetent and just overlooked saying what happens if you test positive, but others (like myself) are of the opinion that TAT deliberately neglected to provide the information.  TAT are clearly not about the truth - this is just another example.

There are quite a few unhappy younger tourists on forums (Reddit etc.) who all seem to have a different experience when they tested positive. Some are good (as such) and some are terrible - but most of them had no idea what was going to happen to them.

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1 hour ago, AussieBob said:

Thanks for agreeing Marc.  Some people will say that TAT are incompetent and just overlooked saying what happens if you test positive, but others (like myself) are of the opinion that TAT deliberately neglected to provide the information.  TAT are clearly not about the truth - this is just another example.

There are quite a few unhappy younger tourists on forums (Reddit etc.) who all seem to have a different experience when they tested positive. Some are good (as such) and some are terrible - but most of them had no idea what was going to happen to them.

I don't think that ambiguity only applies to Thailand 

 

When we went to Mexico this summer there was no real official policy 

Although stories on forums of positive results seemed much more about the infected being able to stay in the hotels and villas they were booked at when tested positive 

 

Although one nasty story was a big resort didn't want a posting case on their hands and offered to give a fake negative certificate result

And when the person refused they forced her to stay in a crappy hotel when their official booking policy was you got a room free for quarantine if you tested positive 

 

I wish countries were clear

Like I said even Fiji's announcement is 100% what actually happens to you 

 

But we are traveling during a pandemic 

So you weigh those risks

 

I want to see my stepson so it's worth the risk for me ...

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