News Forum - A snapshot of Thai government schools’ curriculum

[Thaiger]

Thailand’s young learners have access to cheap or free education through government-sponsored schools. Also known as public schools, the curriculum is determined by the country’s Ministry of Education. As Thailand is a theocracy, the Buddhist practises that are recognised by the government are also taught at public schools. At the elementary level, students are taught 8 core subjects each semester. Those subjects include: mathematics, Thai language, social science, science, health and physical education, technology, arts and music, and foreign languages. When students are in Matthayom 4, or around 16 years of age, they are also given the choice of 1 […]

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[Shade_Wilder]

"Currently, the Ministry of Education has set the English language curriculum to follow the Common European Framework or CEFR for students at all levels of public schools. However, it is not clear if the schools are following the framework or are evaluate students’ skills in accordance with the framework." (my bold)

 

This article/story/fantasy is the epitome of the expression "Putting Lipstick on a Pig" as the Thai public Education System sucks. It sucks badly. Quite frankly, perhaps the only honest thing in this article is the section quoted above effectively hinting and implying that everything in the English curriculum portion of the story is a lie, and the same could be said for it all from start to finish.

The Thai Education is in dire need of reform. Dire need. Dire, dire need.

I could (and probably have) write 10-20 pages on this subject and more learned people than I could write 500 times that. Let me highlight a few key points and allow the (very, very) long list of other issues come out in discussion.

The Ministry of Education offices in Bangkok should be bombed to rubble, then bombed again in order to make the rubble bounce. There is a saying in Politics that "Personnel is Policy" (if you appoint a right-wing economist, you get right-wing economic policy proposals) and the current personnel in the Ministry created the monstrosity that exists now. Further, the higher-ups in the Ministry's bureaucracy appointed all their protégés and acolytes to positions below them, so merely removing the top echelons isn't enough; they all have to go. Why do they have to go? Based on the Ministry's OWN tests, a majority of Thai students fail 7 out of 8 subjects and the only subject in which a majority of Thai students pass is in Thai language. In Thailand. Simply put, the current leaders of the Thai Education Ministry Bureaucracy created the problem and neither they nor their underlings have the capacity to fix it; just blow up the damn place and encase the rubble in plexiglass as a reminder to others of what not to do.

The Ministry of Education offices in each of the provinces should also be bombed, but with precision to only destroy 80% of their offices and staff. There is an argument to keep Provincial offices as Education is one of those issues which is often location specific. Yes, national objectives can be good, but consider that Yala, Bangkok and Chang Rai do not have the identical Educational needs and that should be reflected within the system. Further, there is an argument to having a 'local' coordinating body and, if they are 'on the ball', provincial offices could play that role. However, I have never, ever been in a Thai government office where 80% of the staff couldn't be fired. 'Nuff said.

The schools themselves need to have some responsibility for outcomes. Think about it; a school might have 20+ (?) staff in total, but it essentially has NO responsibility. Students don't learn? Pass them regardless. Teacher doesn't show up? The principal can't really fire them, so who cares? The budget is abused? It is done with the knowledge and consent of the provincial/local education office, so... The obvious responsibility point is with the Principal of the school, so make his/her continued employment contingent upon students passing the national standardized tests. But, if you give responsibility to the Principal, you also have to give them some power to run the school, hire/fire/discipline teachers and students, and an all-around grant of authority; responsibility without the means to attain it is a waste of time and effort.

The students. Thai young people aren't stupid, they are badly educated. All of us can recall the effect a good teacher had on our lives; I bet everyone reading this can still name them 30/40/50 years later. A very long time ago I went through teaching school and one single thing stood out above all the rest; it is a philosophy of educating people...

Tell me and I will forget

Show me and I might recall

Involve me and I'll always remember

I've always felt that those three lines should be tattooed on the forehead of every teacher that goes through teaching school.

The other key issue is what specifically should students be taught? There are some good arguments (in my eyes) for some rote and/or moral/ethical/national stuff; the multiplication times tables and 'thou shall not steal' are good examples, I think. Another great example came from Indonesia; a country with 300+ distinct local languages needs a common language, so Bahasa Indonesia is mandatory at every school at every level. Terrible, awful abuses of this methodology are Prayut's 12 "Thai Values" (of mindlessness) and the Militarization exercises; take note of the student's and teacher's salute in the photos and draw your own conclusions. However, beyond a few basics, the days of students needing to know and remember 'facts' are behind us. We live in an Information Golden Age where the sum of Humanity's knowledge can be held in the palm of one's hand/phone. What is the practical implication of that? Students needs to learn how to access information, how to rate and evaluate information, and how to apply information rather than simply remembering it. However, that is another (too long) post.

As we move along in the 21st century, countries with well-educated populations are going to thrive and countries with badly-educated citizens are going to be their housekeepers, gardeners, bar-girls and drivers.  

Which would you prefer, Thailand?

 

[DiJoDavO]

"Thai students also have a fair share of holidays and events to build up awareness and respect for their teachers and country. One famous celebration is that of Wai Kru Day. This is the day in which students say thank you to their teachers or educators by presenting them with flowers known as “dok khem” (needle flower or Ixora) because it represents the student’s promise that his/her brain will be as sharp as a needle. It is expected that students present the dok khem while performing a polite gesture called the “wai,” which is described as bowing with your hands in a prayer-like form near your face. Wai Kru Day at school will normally feature a ceremony that honours the teachers."

Am I the only teacher who thinks this is the most awkward day of the year?

[Dedinbed]

1 hour ago, Thaiger said:

As Thailand is a theocracy, the Buddhist practises that are recognised by the government are also taught at public schools.

How enlightening ..

[HolyCowCm]

As much as these elite fatheads try or want they will never be able to brainwash these kids unless they develop a drug or a laboratory conditioning method to totally rewrite the kids total way of thinking. 12 values have maybe a couple that they will do and respect and that kindergarden military training will fall like a rock when they get into the scouts and forced to do more things. How do I know? I have kids and they have friends and their friends have friends and parents who all talk. 

[Stardust]

1 hour ago, Shade_Wilder said:

"Currently, the Ministry of Education has set the English language curriculum to follow the Common European Framework or CEFR for students at all levels of public schools. However, it is not clear if the schools are following the framework or are evaluate students’ skills in accordance with the framework." (my bold)

This article/story/fantasy is the epitome of the expression "Putting Lipstick on a Pig" as the Thai public Education System sucks. It sucks badly. Quite frankly, perhaps the only honest thing in this article is the section quoted above effectively hinting and implying that everything in the English curriculum portion of the story is a lie, and the same could be said for it all from start to finish.

The Thai Education is in dire need of reform. Dire need. Dire, dire need.

I could (and probably have) write 10-20 pages on this subject and more learned people than I could write 500 times that. Let me highlight a few key points and allow the (very, very) long list of other issues come out in discussion.

The Ministry of Education offices in Bangkok should be bombed to rubble, then bombed again in order to make the rubble bounce. There is a saying in Politics that "Personnel is Policy" (if you appoint a right-wing economist, you get right-wing economic policy proposals) and the current personnel in the Ministry created the monstrosity that exists now. Further, the higher-ups in the Ministry's bureaucracy appointed all their protégés and acolytes to positions below them, so merely removing the top echelons isn't enough; they all have to go. Why do they have to go? Based on the Ministry's OWN tests, a majority of Thai students fail 7 out of 8 subjects and the only subject in which a majority of Thai students pass is in Thai language. In Thailand. Simply put, the current leaders of the Thai Education Ministry Bureaucracy created the problem and neither they nor their underlings have the capacity to fix it; just blow up the damn place and encase the rubble in plexiglass as a reminder to others of what not to do.

The Ministry of Education offices in each of the provinces should also be bombed, but with precision to only destroy 80% of their offices and staff. There is an argument to keep Provincial offices as Education is one of those issues which is often location specific. Yes, national objectives can be good, but consider that Yala, Bangkok and Chang Rai do not have the identical Educational needs and that should be reflected within the system. Further, there is an argument to having a 'local' coordinating body and, if they are 'on the ball', provincial offices could play that role. However, I have never, ever been in a Thai government office where 80% of the staff couldn't be fired. 'Nuff said.

The schools themselves need to have some responsibility for outcomes. Think about it; a school might have 20+ (?) staff in total, but it essentially has NO responsibility. Students don't learn? Pass them regardless. Teacher doesn't show up? The principal can't really fire them, so who cares? The budget is abused? It is done with the knowledge and consent of the provincial/local education office, so... The obvious responsibility point is with the Principal of the school, so make his/her continued employment contingent upon students passing the national standardized tests. But, if you give responsibility to the Principal, you also have to give them some power to run the school, hire/fire/discipline teachers and students, and an all-around grant of authority; responsibility without the means to attain it is a waste of time and effort.

The students. Thai young people aren't stupid, they are badly educated. All of us can recall the effect a good teacher had on our lives; I bet everyone reading this can still name them 30/40/50 years later. A very long time ago I went through teaching school and one single thing stood out above all the rest; it is a philosophy of educating people...

Tell me and I will forget

Show me and I might recall

Involve me and I'll always remember

I've always felt that those three lines should be tattooed on the forehead of every teacher that goes through teaching school.

The other key issue is what specifically should students be taught? There are some good arguments (in my eyes) for some rote and/or moral/ethical/national stuff; the multiplication times tables and 'thou shall not steal' are good examples, I think. Another great example came from Indonesia; a country with 300+ distinct local languages needs a common language, so Bahasa Indonesia is mandatory at every school at every level. Terrible, awful abuses of this methodology are Prayut's 12 "Thai Values" (of mindlessness) and the Militarization exercises; take note of the student's and teacher's salute in the photos and draw your own conclusions. However, beyond a few basics, the days of students needing to know and remember 'facts' are behind us. We live in an Information Golden Age where the sum of Humanity's knowledge can be held in the palm of one's hand/phone. What is the practical implication of that? Students needs to learn how to access information, how to rate and evaluate information, and how to apply information rather than simply remembering it. However, that is another (too long) post.

As we move along in the 21st century, countries with well-educated populations are going to thrive and countries with badly-educated citizens are going to be their housekeepers, gardeners, bar-girls and drivers.  

Which would you prefer, Thailand?

And they never teach them critical thinking only to take comands. Without critical thinking they cannot do any job in the modern world. Companies have not the recources to have sombody to explain them what they have to do next or the time watch them all the time because they cannot solve a problem by themself. And which jobs left for people only trained to take commands and not to think? 

[Benroon]

This is a subject that baffles me - my daughter at 14 was bringing home insane maths homework, comfortably A level stuff at 14 !! she bought some to me, as I was pretty good with the maths and it was like wading through mud so she sympathetically took it away rather than watch me flounder !!

She would be up till 1am finishing it nearly every day, then up at 7 to go back in 6 days a week and then found somewhere she (or I) could pay to get extra tuition on a Sunday. She loves it. I'm a bit biased but she can knock out complex equations without blinking. So proud

Then one day I asked her to name 6 European capitals - after London, because she's been there, there was absolute silence. Such a big shock. 

[King Cotton]

2 hours ago, Benroon said:

This is a subject that baffles me - my daughter at 14 was bringing home insane maths homework, comfortably A level stuff at 14 !! she bought some to me, as I was pretty good with the maths and it was like wading through mud so she sympathetically took it away rather than watch me flounder !!

She would be up till 1am finishing it nearly every day, then up at 7 to go back in 6 days a week and then found somewhere she (or I) could pay to get extra tuition on a Sunday. She loves it. I'm a bit biased but she can knock out complex equations without blinking. So proud

Then one day I asked her to name 6 European capitals - after London, because she's been there, there was absolute silence. Such a big shock. 

Great post, @Benroon, not so much that it highlighted, in my admittedly low regard for Thai educ's maths standards, an exceptionally strong maths class at your daughter's school, but that it highlighted such a gaping hole in the school's geography teaching.

Yes, I agree that good maths is more important than good geogy but, if the school was bossed by a thoroughly competent director, shouldn't your hard-working daughter have been able  to quote Paris or New York, perhaps?

Still happily surprised, I have to admit, re those maths equations that had you sunk !

Cheers!

KC.

[Soidog]

3 hours ago, Benroon said:

This is a subject that baffles me - my daughter at 14 was bringing home insane maths homework, comfortably A level stuff at 14 !! she bought some to me, as I was pretty good with the maths and it was like wading through mud so she sympathetically took it away rather than watch me flounder !!

She would be up till 1am finishing it nearly every day, then up at 7 to go back in 6 days a week and then found somewhere she (or I) could pay to get extra tuition on a Sunday. She loves it. I'm a bit biased but she can knock out complex equations without blinking. So proud

Then one day I asked her to name 6 European capitals - after London, because she's been there, there was absolute silence. Such a big shock. 

I think the Thai authorities feel comfortable teaching subjects like Maths, physics and other science subjects. What they won’t do is educate students on matters which cause them to look outside of Thailand or in any way hold other cultures or societies in higher esteem. It would be interesting to know if she knows the nationality of Pythagoras, Archimedes or Newton or the discoveries of people like Faraday, Einstein or Feynman.  Science subjects can be taught by Rote without having to explain background or the historical significance of the pioneers involved. To do so may raise difficult questions such as: what role has Thailand played in scientific discoveries and what are the top ten Thai inventions? 

[Benroon]

5 hours ago, Soidog said:

I think the Thai authorities feel comfortable teaching subjects like Maths, physics and other science subjects. What they won’t do is educate students on matters which cause them to look outside of Thailand or in any way hold other cultures or societies in higher esteem. It would be interesting to know if she knows the nationality of Pythagoras, Archimedes or Newton or the discoveries of people like Faraday, Einstein or Feynman.  Science subjects can be taught by Rote without having to explain background or the historical significance of the pioneers involved. To do so may raise difficult questions such as: what role has Thailand played in scientific discoveries and what are the top ten Thai inventions? 

Yep agree - some might say Geography not so important but I think it makes you a more rounded person knowledge wise so was a bit disappointed it’s virtually completely bypassed here. But I agree it’s a pretty insular nation and that will always hold it back to some extent. 

I’ll ask her on the inventions front, for me easily overshadowing the wheel is the long stick with the gripper on the end that allows you to change light bulbs without ladders lolol

Every time I tell her this she just rolls her eyes in disappointment and walks off haha 

 

[huhuarf]

10 hours ago, Benroon said:

Then one day I asked her to name 6 European capitals - after London, because she's been there, there was absolute silence. Such a big shock.

To be fair that's of very limited value educationally.  I teach Social Studies and even if I do put a question like that it is open for some degree of criticism.  Ultimately, we would ask the question of what learning goals, if any, such question satisfy.

I'm in my forties and I can say a lot of my social studies education had exams such as that, and they were simply rote and didn't build any skills.  In my opinion, social studies should be done through an inquiry framework, where we pose challenges and students engage with the topic through framing questions, planning inquiries, gathering and assessing evidence, proposing solutions or findings via oral and written communication, and then perhaps even acting on those findings.

Asking students to memorize random capitals and taking a Cliff Claven approach to learning has done a great deal of damage to social studies as a discipline. 

[Shade_Wilder]

12 hours ago, Benroon said:

This is a subject that baffles me - my daughter at 14 was bringing home insane maths homework, comfortably A level stuff at 14 !! she bought some to me, as I was pretty good with the maths and it was like wading through mud so she sympathetically took it away rather than watch me flounder !!

She would be up till 1am finishing it nearly every day, then up at 7 to go back in 6 days a week and then found somewhere she (or I) could pay to get extra tuition on a Sunday. She loves it. I'm a bit biased but she can knock out complex equations without blinking. So proud

Then one day I asked her to name 6 European capitals - after London, because she's been there, there was absolute silence. Such a big shock. 

"Then one day I asked her to name 6 European capitals - after London, because she's been there, there was absolute silence. Such a big shock. "

This is a perfect example of the problems of the current Thai (and many other) Education systems.

I am not having a 'go' at you @Benroon, but why on Earth would the Thai Education system teach European capitals? What value would knowing that accrue to a Thai for that knowledge being stored in their heads? Why would they care? I get that you are European and thus it might be a concern to you and yours, but isn't that something you should teach your child? Put another way, do you remember all the capitals of Latin American countries? If not, why not? (hint: it wasn't terribly relevant to you)

We live in a different age where the sum of Human Knowledge is at our fingertips/in our phone, so why clutter up the brain with useless data? Isn't it better to teach your child how to find and access information? How to assess the value of that information? How to use that information in a practical manner? Sorry, but beyond a certain point, there is not much need to retain information like there was in your/my day.

The focus of Education in the modern era should be HOW to learn, not WHAT FACT to remember.

[riclag]

I remember when my daughter was in HS here!

The Thai teachers used copy and paste on her homework assignments  without knowing the answers , I’m sure of it!

“How many senators make up the Congress in the Usa”?

How many members in the House of Representatives ?

 

 

[CNX]

I fear the prime minister is looking at very long tenure.  His tenets will appeal to the ruling class.

[LoongFred]

12 hours ago, Soidog said:

I think the Thai authorities feel comfortable teaching subjects like Maths, physics and other science subjects. What they won’t do is educate students on matters which cause them to look outside of Thailand or in any way hold other cultures or societies in higher esteem. It would be interesting to know if she knows the nationality of Pythagoras, Archimedes or Newton or the discoveries of people like Faraday, Einstein or Feynman.  Science subjects can be taught by Rote without having to explain background or the historical significance of the pioneers involved. To do so may raise difficult questions such as: what role has Thailand played in scientific discoveries and what are the top ten Thai inventions? 

I would say that for a Thai student Asian capitals would be more important than European capitals and basic education in math and science would be more important than soft social science questions.  In today's age of computers and on-line look ups, knowledge of past philosophers and inventers isn't critical. Being able to access information in real time is, IMO.

As a scientist I realize that the basics must be memorized so that they can be used. Memorizing the chemical tables and the components of each atom, is a challenge but without it understanding organic chemistry is impossible. 

I enjoy history and had the same information taught numerous time throughout my education. It was a real waste and if it wasn't for good teachers, I'd probably only slept. 

My preference would be to focus on basics and add a little fluff as time permits.

[Stonker]

19 hours ago, King Cotton said:

shouldn't your hard-working daughter have been able  to quote Paris or New York, perhaps

Presumably you threw that in tongue-in-cheek to see if anyone noticed?

[King Cotton]

43 minutes ago, Stonker said:

Presumably you threw that in tongue-in-cheek to see if anyone noticed?

Yes and, you know what, I had you down as the most likely to . . . it's that attention-to-detail thing again !

Funny thing is that I actually did enter NY seriously, before scoffing at myself for the gaff and was about to correct it when the tongue-in-cheek aspect took control .

[Stonker]

1 hour ago, King Cotton said:

Yes and, you know what, I had you down as the most likely to . . . it's that attention-to-detail thing again !

Funny thing is that I actually did enter NY seriously, before scoffing at myself for the gaff and was about to correct it when the tongue-in-cheek aspect took control .

Funny thing is I thought you had!

(edit: and I wouldn't be in the least surprised if no-one else noticed )

[huhuarf]

18 hours ago, LoongFred said:

I would say that for a Thai student Asian capitals would be more important than European capitals and basic education in math and science would be more important than soft social science questions.  In today's age of computers and on-line look ups, knowledge of past philosophers and inventers isn't critical. Being able to access information in real time is, IMO.

As a scientist I realize that the basics must be memorized so that they can be used. Memorizing the chemical tables and the components of each atom, is a challenge but without it understanding organic chemistry is impossible. 

I enjoy history and had the same information taught numerous time throughout my education. It was a real waste and if it wasn't for good teachers, I'd probably only slept. 

My preference would be to focus on basics and add a little fluff as time permits.

I think I agree with a lot of the direction of this post.  I'll admit my own bias as a social studies teacher here.  I simply think that social studies has often been dilluted down to a simple bar-stool trivia game as a course of study.  More modern methods are really focused on inquiry, and in my opinion share a great deal with high quality science learning methods in that we teach students to work with and assess the quality of evidence, generate hyopthesis, test if/when they are true and if not then analyze why that is the case, how to produce and disseminate results, etc.

Granted, I think also that science education has better advocacy and has teachers who have done more to push a true inquiry model into the classrooms.  It's a rare course that doesn't have numerous hands-on learning scientific opportunities, which allow students to engage in the practice of scientists.  Sadly, the same cannot often be said for social studies many times.

And yeah, having students identify the origin of varied rock star philosophers of the ADs probably won't have any significance on a student, and thus wasted educational time.