News Forum - 38 countries reportedly on short list for no quarantine reopening

[Jason]

Time is wasting...and so is the high season. If you can figure it out by say, this time next year....the hotels would have closed and Thailand will be thrown back into the dark ages...

[Bob20]

3 minutes ago, Bangkok_Gary said:

If a person is fully vaccinated and tests negative on departure and on arrival why would it matter which country they are from ?

In principle is doesn't. The Thai government made a list of "safe" countries to give the illusion of feeling secure, but in reality they have other motives.

BTW, because there is an incubation period, you can still test positive and become infectious later after you had a negative PCR test. That's why there usually is quarantine, but if they keep quarantine like in Phuket, they can't get enough people to come to make decent money.

In the case of Thailand though, you're more likely to get infected here and bring it home being the only free thing you'll get here

[Rasputin]

1 hour ago, kerryd said:

It seems the list is based on who they think will spend the most if they come, not on which countries are "safer" than others.

How the hell did India, USA and the UK get on the list, they are all reporting huge numbers of daily new cases. The UK alone are reporting around 40,000 a DAY, and India being on the list, beggars belief, it would be the last place I would have on it. The current surge in UK infections that the UK is suffering came from returnees from India, we WERE reporting extremely low numbers prior to this screw-up from Boris. I suspect 'Thainomics' are the answer, but with the best will in the world, I can't see a good outcome coming from it. I was hoping to take a 3 month trip back to Thailand early next year, but with the current decisions being made, it's looking increasingly doubtful.

[Faz]

4 hours ago, mickkotlarski said:

I can see the sense in allowing all these nations to be considered but after consulting a lot of information about how India has handled the pandemic I still believe that both Singapore and China would be more worthy for the Nov 1 list.

This is a quote of what the PM stated 4 days ago.

Quote

 

Gen Prayut said in a nationally televised broadcast that fully vaccinated tourists from at least 10 low-risk countries would be allowed to enter Thailand by air with no quarantine requirements.

The prime minister named the United Kingdom, Singapore, Germany, China and the United States among the first group of countries to benefit from the move.

 

https://www.bangkokpost.com/business/2196079/pm-sets-nov-1-for-reopening-to-foreign-tourists-from-low-risk-countries

They're seems some discord between Prayut and Anutin and it appears inevitable that one of them is going to end up with egg on their face when an official announcement is made, unless they agree to share it.

 

[mickkotlarski]

3 minutes ago, Faz said:

This is a quote of what the PM stated 4 days ago.

https://www.bangkokpost.com/business/2196079/pm-sets-nov-1-for-reopening-to-foreign-tourists-from-low-risk-countries

They're seems some discord between Prayut and Anutin and it appears inevitable that one of them is going to end up with egg on their face when an official announcement is made, unless they agree to share it.

Thank you Faz.

Unfortunately this is a common reoccurring theme with coalition governments and as you correctly stated one or the other will end up with egg on their faces.

This is not the first issue that Anutin has released conflicting information. Sadly I'm not surprised. But taking a mutual stand and a mutual agreement  among lions and hyenas will be more straight forward.

[Chameleon]

Someone asked : How the hell did the United States make Thailand's top ten list ?

I will not comment on one's arrogance and ignorance on this matter.

The USA has 189 million people fully vaccinated and another 36 million who have received 1 jab .

Outside of China, there is no country that even comes close to the number of vaccinated Americans.

Additionally, 44 million Americans have had and recovered from Covid 19, a large potential source of travelers when the world recognizes natural immunity is as good as if not better than vaccine protection.

But, alas, I digress.

Feel free to attack the USA, but drawing from a pool of 189 million fully vaccinated  plus another potential trove within the 36 million single jab group is a rather intelligent distinction made by the powers that be.

 

 

[Alavan]

7 minutes ago, Chameleon said:

Someone asked : How the hell did the United States make Thailand's top ten list ?

I will not comment on one's arrogance and ignorance on this matter.

The USA has 189 million people fully vaccinated and another 36 million who have received 1 jab .

Outside of China, there is no country that even comes close to the number of vaccinated Americans.

Additionally, 44 million Americans have had and recovered from Covid 19, a large potential source of travelers when the world recognizes natural immunity is as good as if not better than vaccine protection.

But, alas, I digress.

Feel free to attack the USA, but drawing from a pool of 189 million fully vaccinated  plus another potential trove within the 36 million single jab group is a rather intelligent distinction made by the powers that be.

strange mathematics.
I attack nobody, but:
- what percentage of US citizens is vaccinated? You can't for example expect 189 million, say Portuguese to be vaccinated, as I guess there are less than 10m. around.
-why add to covid recovered Americans to those 189 m.? You can be both. I have a friend, GP doctor who had covid and after got 2 Vaccinations. Does that count as one or two persons?

Edited October 16, 2021 by Alavan

[JohninDublin]

10 hours ago, Shade_Wilder said:

"The new rumoured list includes 24 unnamed countries in the European Union, plus 5 Nordic countries: Denmark, Finland, Iceland, Norway, and Sweden. Of the 5 Nordic countries, 3 of them – Denmark, Finland, and Sweden – area also EU members, while Iceland and Norway are members of the related European Economic Area."

The question that we are all asking is; when will the Republic of Elbonia be added to the list?

A well known Marxist (Groucho) is leading the campaign "Fair Play for Freedonia".

[JohninDublin]

10 hours ago, mickkotlarski said:

How on earth can India be on the list for 1st November but not China or Singapore who have controlled the pandemic much better?

About time for some transparency as to how this list was made would help. Even if the powers at be change their minds yet again or numbers of infected fell or suddenly increased.

I agree with you about transparency, but one set of figures I don't trust is China. At a time when they  reported very few deaths in Wuhan, western news sources were able to show that the city's 6 crematoria which would operate on average 4 hours a day, were working 24 hours. At the same time, calls to local undertakers showed that funeral urns were sold out. 

Singapore I can believe.

[JohninDublin]

5 hours ago, Bangkok_Gary said:

If a person is fully vaccinated and tests negative on departure and on arrival why would it matter which country they are from ?

I am racking my trying to think of an answer, The best I can come up with, is on a long-haul, the crew of the flight are put at risk through their overnight stay in the country, and may bring the virus home when they return. 

One other point I might suggest, is there are certain countries where you can obtain documentation for just about anything, and all that matters to the providers, is the bribe they obtain. Is it a coincidence the rapid growth of Delta in the UK, was shortly after thousands of Indians fled back there when facing "Hotel Quarantine"? Is it a coincidence that most of the initial outbreaks occurred in towns with large Indian communities"?

[JohninDublin]

56 minutes ago, Chameleon said:

Someone asked : How the hell did the United States make Thailand's top ten list ?

I will not comment on one's arrogance and ignorance on this matter.

The USA has 189 million people fully vaccinated and another 36 million who have received 1 jab .

Outside of China, there is no country that even comes close to the number of vaccinated Americans.

Additionally, 44 million Americans have had and recovered from Covid 19, a large potential source of travelers when the world recognizes natural immunity is as good as if not better than vaccine protection.

But, alas, I digress.

Feel free to attack the USA, but drawing from a pool of 189 million fully vaccinated  plus another potential trove within the 36 million single jab group is a rather intelligent distinction made by the powers that be.

The prob I find with the US, is not that 189 mill are vaxxed, which was largely due to those who thought it was beneficial and could hardly wait, but that those who have are awaiting likely to get a second jab can be assessed on the basis of being just 9% of the population. Based on what I have seen about the politicising of vaxxing/mask wearing etc in the US, I don't think the numbers fully vaxxed will get much beyond 70% in total.

The US which accounts for less than 5% of the earth's population, account for 55% of all current infections. What is even more amazing about that stat, is that the US only had 19% of all initial infections to begin with.

[JohninDublin]

1 hour ago, Alavan said:

strange mathematics.

-why add to covid recovered Americans to those 189 m.? You can be both.

Recently reported Rep of Ireland International Footballer, has twice been infected with CV. The idea that having had the disease recently makes you immune, is a fallacy.

[Chameleon]

2 hours ago, Alavan said:

strange mathematics.
I attack nobody, but:
- what percentage of US citizens is vaccinated? You can't for example expect 189 million, say Portuguese to be vaccinated, as I guess there are less than 10m. around.
-why add to covid recovered Americans to those 189 m.? You can be both. I have a friend, GP doctor who had covid and after got 2 Vaccinations. Does that count as one or two persons?

Never said that I added 44 million recovered to get the 189 million..

I simply stated 189 million Americans are fully vaccinated.....a very good pool to draw from....or  do you not think so?

One can assume an unknown number of the 44 million recovered have been vaccinated, but those numbers are not readily available.

I simply stated how many received the required doses.

Many of the 36 million who have received one dose may eventually get the second. Who knows for sure?

It is true that Portugal has a smaller population in comparison to the USA.

BUT ....are you hung up on percentages or are you looking for countries that will make the biggest financial impact on the Thai economy??

That would be the USA...not Portugal, Spain, Finland, etc.

Basic Economics 101.

The generals seem to understand the principle very well.

You would never make it as a business man.

And just for your amusement...the USA had the biggest number of folks involved in the Phuket sandbox experiment.

The generals also took notice.

Draw whatever conclusions you wish.

[Cathat]

It's far to late for the mass tourism industry to gear up for this high season now.

The earliest they can expect meaningful numbers from the traditional markets is Q3 2022.

This development could well be of use to low value/low quality visitors (ie those who know the score and are not easy to fleace)such as myself and other users of this board.

 

[Chameleon]

2 hours ago, JohninDubin said:

The prob I find with the US, is not that 189 mill are vaxxed, which was largely due to those who thought it was beneficial and could hardly wait, but that those who have are awaiting likely to get a second jab can be assessed on the basis of being just 9% of the population. Based on what I have seen about the politicising of vaxxing/mask wearing etc in the US, I don't think the numbers fully vaxxed will get much beyond 70% in total.

The US which accounts for less than 5% of the earth's population, account for 55% of all current infections. What is even more amazing about that stat, is that the US only had 19% of all initial infections to begin with.

Yes, the USA certainly had a lot of Covid. Still does.There is really no excuse.

Arrogance and bad behavior led to 740,000+ deaths and still climbing.

The elderly and medically compromised were victimized by the behavior of their families, friends, and neighbors. I do not condone any of it.

But the USA with its vast financial and intellectual resources did play an extraordinarily prominent role in the development of the Moderna, Johnson and Johnson, and Astra Zeneca vaccines, as well as contributing and collaborating on Pfizer vaccine with Europe.

A successful Novovax vaccine is in final stages of approval in the USA as well.

The USA spearheaded the quality vaccines that the world uses now...with the emphasis on quality.

You can criticize their flagrant personal behavior, but the world is in a much better place due to America's financial and intellectual resources.

The USA did not start this pandemic, but we did aggressively respond to it from a vaccine perspective.

[Chameleon]

2 hours ago, JohninDubin said:

Recently reported Rep of Ireland International Footballer, has twice been infected with CV. The idea that having had the disease recently makes you immune, is a fallacy.

Developing immunity for a specific virus such as Covid 19 does not mean you will not get a future occurrence.

That is why there are yearly flu shots.

The development of an immune response allows the body to recognize and fight the original virus or a mutation when it cycles through again. The more the body encounters the same or similar virus the stronger the the body becomes.

As we have seen with Covid 19, successive strains, though more transmissible are less symptomatic, more asymptomatic, resulting in fewer hospitalizations, ICU adventures, and subsequent deaths.

Developing a stronger immunity and being 100% immune are two totally different animals.

I simply stated that natural immunity which results from having had the disease previously will protect you just as well as the vaccine.

Yes, it may be fallacious to think that a person who had a virus once will not get the same virus yet again.

Equally fallacious is the notion that if you were jabbed twice, you also will not get the virus .

Medical experts across the globe agree that people should be vaccinated.

But for those who have had the virus, medical experts also agree that natural immunity will protect the individual for an undefined period of time.... between 6 months and a year.

At that juncture a booster is recommended.

[Benroon]

12 hours ago, TheDirtyDurian said:

It will be fine, not that many people will be coming anyway, so there won't be a massive uptick in case numbers. In a few months we'll be wondering what all the fuss was about.

Given right now its been reported that the COE is being scrapped and no-one has a clue what's going to replace it, if anything, then I would say what you've said is a racing certainty

[PapayaBokBok]

13 hours ago, NCC1701A said:

thanks Mac,

i'll go outside now. 

Amen to that Boss!

[PapayaBokBok]

1 hour ago, Benroon said:

Given right now its been reported that the COE is being scrapped and no-one has a clue what's going to replace it, if anything, then I would say what you've said is a racing certainty

Bkk post had article today saying a "Thailand plus app" will be the new COE....but could change in 5 mins

[JohninDublin]

1 hour ago, Chameleon said:

Yes, the USA certainly had a lot of Covid. Still does.There is really no excuse.

Arrogance and bad behavior led to 740,000+ deaths and still climbing.

The elderly and medically compromised were victimized by the behavior of their families, friends, and neighbors. I do not condone any of it.

But the USA with its vast financial and intellectual resources did play an extraordinarily prominent role in the development of the Moderna, Johnson and Johnson, and Astra Zeneca vaccines, as well as contributing and collaborating on Pfizer vaccine with Europe.

A successful Novovax vaccine is in final stages of approval in the USA as well.

The USA spearheaded the quality vaccines that the world uses now...with the emphasis on quality.

You can criticize their flagrant personal behavior, but the world is in a much better place due to America's financial and intellectual resources.

The USA did not start this pandemic, but we did aggressively respond to it from a vaccine perspective.

I hope you don't think I am Yank bashing. The US has done a lot of good, but a lot of that good has been undone because a huge chunk of America is in an undeclared war with itself. That became obvious when you could see Americans abusing their fellow countrymen for the crime of wearing a mask.

My concern, is that while Americans are fighting a proxy war with the virus as an underlying factor, the virus is going to be around for a hell of a long time. I've seen those that say "People are not dying from the virus, but from underlying conditions". That's mainly true, but there are those who are young and healthy who it does kill. More to the point though, if you just count the obese, diabetics and asthmatics, there are over 200 mill cases of these in the US. In fairness many of those will have more than one of those conditions, but these are among the most common health conditions in the US, and I'd guess that the total number with at least one of these conditions numbers150 mill.

Now factor in that the vaxxes, although better than nothing, are not perfect. They don't guarantee immunity, and for those with immunity because of vaxxing, that does not prevent them being carriers. As I've said, I estimate that maybe as many as 30% will refuse the vax. I hope I am wrong. But if I was deciding which countries to open up to tomorrow, I'd be looking at the US and the metrics and saying that "Proportionately. they have 4X more infections than average, 3.5X and 10X more unresolved cases than average. 30% are refusing to get vaxxed, and many are not only refusing to wear a mask, but abusing those who do. Do I really want to let them into my country and risk the recent gains we have made"?

[Benroon]

33 minutes ago, PapayaBokBok said:

Bkk post had article today saying a "Thailand plus app" will be the new COE....but could change in 5 mins

Yes I know about the words Thailand Pass but what is it ?

[JohninDublin]

1 hour ago, Chameleon said:

Developing immunity for a specific virus such as Covid 19 does not mean you will not get a future occurrence.

That is why there are yearly flu shots.

The development of an immune response allows the body to recognize and fight the original virus or a mutation when it cycles through again. The more the body encounters the same or similar virus the stronger the the body becomes.

As we have seen with Covid 19, successive strains, though more transmissible are less symptomatic, more asymptomatic, resulting in fewer hospitalizations, ICU adventures, and subsequent deaths.

Developing a stronger immunity and being 100% immune are two totally different animals.

I simply stated that natural immunity which results from having had the disease previously will protect you just as well as the vaccine.

Yes, it may be fallacious to think that a person who had a virus once will not get the same virus yet again.

Equally fallacious is the notion that if you were jabbed twice, you also will not get the virus .

Medical experts across the globe agree that people should be vaccinated.

But for those who have had the virus, medical experts also agree that natural immunity will protect the individual for an undefined period of time.... between 6 months and a year.

At that juncture a booster is recommended.

I understand that about vaxxes. Specific to the flu virus, the reason for annual flu shots is that particular virus is constantly mutating, so even if last year's jab confers lifetime immunity, it will only be against that strain.

But regarding having been infected and the "immunity" it confers, from what I have read on the subject, the anti-body count deteriorates rapidly. This has led to numerous cases of the fully vaxxed post-infection, still succumbing to a second attack.

Fortunately, there are some vaxxes which do confer life-time immunity such as Small Pox and Polio, but there is yet to be one that can do so with any of the Coronaviruses. 

[mickkotlarski]

8 hours ago, JohninDubin said:

I agree with you about transparency, but one set of figures I don't trust is China. At a time when they  reported very few deaths in Wuhan, western news sources were able to show that the city's 6 crematoria which would operate on average 4 hours a day, were working 24 hours. At the same time, calls to local undertakers showed that funeral urns were sold out. 

Singapore I can believe.

Ah yes. For a nation that saw huge numbers of people inbound/outbound it slammed all avenues firmly shut very decisively. I still put it ahead of India but with low test numbers and ridiculously low numbers of infected individuals recorded it does seen suspect. Highly populated nations like  the US, Russia and Brazil have much higher spread of infection. 

Did China really do such a great job controlling the pandemic it created (accidentally/intentionally) or is it politburo propaganda?

[mickkotlarski]

10 hours ago, Chameleon said:

Someone asked : How the hell did the United States make Thailand's top ten list ?

I will not comment on one's arrogance and ignorance on this matter.

The USA has 189 million people fully vaccinated and another 36 million who have received 1 jab .

Outside of China, there is no country that even comes close to the number of vaccinated Americans.

Additionally, 44 million Americans have had and recovered from Covid 19, a large potential source of travelers when the world recognizes natural immunity is as good as if not better than vaccine protection.

But, alas, I digress.

Feel free to attack the USA, but drawing from a pool of 189 million fully vaccinated  plus another potential trove within the 36 million single jab group is a rather intelligent distinction made by the powers that be.

Good and relevant points. Its easy to bash nations with high numbers of infected populace but so easy to ignore their achievements and their transparency and openness.  

[HiuMak]

16 hours ago, kerryd said:

Got to wonder who puts the lists together and what their criteria really is. 
 

Money and Power are the main driver