News Forum - Anutin opposes limiting quarantine-free re-opening to 10 countries

[Soidog]

32 minutes ago, JamesR said:

I will wait too as if cases do rise in Thailand due to to an influx of tourists plus the extra workers needed then Thailand could go back onto the Red list in the UK.

I know what you are saying here and I’m not splitting hairs. It’s clear you understand and agree. But we need to be careful of cause and correlation. I have no doubt cases will rise when there is an influx of foreigners. But that won’t be the cause. It will be the increased movement of people through Thailand. Don’t forget, this freedom of movement will apply to locals as well as foreigners. The tourist areas will attract workers back from all over the country. So there will be a correlation between foreign arrivals and increase in cases. But the cause will be freedom and more movement of people in general. 

[JamesR]

16 minutes ago, Soidog said:

I know what you are saying here and I’m not splitting hairs. But we need to be careful of cause and correlation. I have no doubt cases will rise when there is an influx of foreigners. But that won’t be the cause. It will be the increased movement of people through Thailand. Don’t forget, this freedom of movement will apply to locals as well as foreigners. The tourist areas will attract workers back from all over the country. So there will be a correlation between foreign arrivals and increase in cases. But the cause will be freedom and more movement of people in general. 

I wrote "......due to to an influx of tourists plus the extra workers needed..."

We are agreeing with each other, you have added in more meat.

We in the UK have been fully open for over three months now, when I go into Tesco etc only 10% of customers are wearing masks as it is not compulsory now.

Most of the virus cases as of the last few week are mostly unvaccinated school children as they went back to school weeks ago, the rest of us who are vaccinated have a much lower risk of infection and serious illness as we know. 

But in the case of Thailand a claimed 33% have been vaccinated, I am assuming that is only one vaccine shot, so as you say when they do move around again to new jobs created by more tourists or are domestic tourists themselves and all the school reopen I can imagine a sudden sharp and deadly rise in the death rate due to the virus. 

 

 

Edited October 14, 2021 by JamesR
typo

[Soidog]

1 minute ago, JamesR said:

I wrote "......due to to an influx of tourists plus the extra workers needed..."

We are agreeing with each other, you have added in more meat.

We in the UK have been fully open for over three months now, when I go into Tesco etc only 10% of customers are wearing masks as it is not compulsory now.

Most of the virus cases as of the last few week are mostly unvaccinated school children as they went back to school weeks ago, the rest of us who are vaccinated have a much lower risk of serious infections as we know. 

But in the case of Thailand a claimed 33% have been vaccinated, I am assuming that is only one vaccine shot, so as you say when they do move around again to new jobs created by more tourists or are domestic tourists themselves and all the school reopen I can imagine a sudden sharp and deadly rise in the death rate due to the virus. 

Apologies @JamesR  I did edit my comment to recognise you understand and we are in agreement. It was a clumsy post of mine as Im aware you have a grasp on this

[JamesR]

2 minutes ago, Soidog said:

Apologies @JamesR  I did edit my comment to recognise you understand and we are in agreement. It was a clumsy post of mine as Im aware you have a grasp on this

Cheers. 

[JohninDublin]

3 hours ago, Stonker said:

No, @Bob20, that's not correct at all.

The only way of being 100% "safe" is to have quarantine and testing for 14 days (arguably 21, but most accept 14).

The less the period of quarantine, the less "safe" you are as the more chance there is of contracting Covid that has not yet developed / incubated.

Obviously also, as you've overlooked, the less "safe" the country you're coming from the less "safe" you are as there's more chance of you catching and transmitting Covid.

The problem here is that the ten countries selected are very obviously not the ten safest / lowest risk as they include the UK and the US which are the highest risk of any western countries.

At the risk of "re-interpreting" @Bob20I think he meant that these were "safe" in theory by TH standards.

[Jason]

Oh Dear.....what a mess! There's one thing the Thai Government doesn't seem to have taken on board yet (I can only hope they do...for their sakes). Thailand is not the "Covid Free Zone" it was a year or even six months ago. So treating other countries as "Riddled with Covid and not fit to enter our country" was last years narrative. Delta changed a lot. My own country had a large surge in Covid as a result of Delta. So a country that was once a Covid free zone, no longer is. The mindset needs to be a gradual reopening (not boom and the inevitable bust). Tourist hotspots sealed and highly vaccinated. Once the greater population is vaccinated (80% or better of the 15+ population), then an easing of restrictions. Thailand's vaccination rollout has been underwhelming. But don't lose heart! It's been that way pretty much everywhere :) It's the first time in 100 years (since the Spanish flu) that we've had to deal with a global pandemic. 

[JohninDublin]

3 hours ago, Guevara said:

Have you considered the fact that the UK has carried out 312 million tests, hence the identified new cases. Unlike Thailand who have carried out less than 10 million tests. Perhaps if the UK stopped testing they would have virtually no new cases. Thailand is a powder keg with pathetically low testing figures. Likewise with vaccinations, I believe around 33% have been vaccinated (with the placebo or pseudo vaccination Sinovac).

Agree with you about the efficacy of Sino. However, I am not so sure that the relative lack is quite so important. I would guess that those being tested in TH are those who are genuinely felling unwell. Of course where the UK test rates do have an advantage over TH, is that they detect infections earlier, as well as asymptomatic cases.

[Bob20]

1 minute ago, Jason said:

...There's one thing the Thai Government doesn't seem to have taken on board yet...

Only one? 

More tissues please

[JohninDublin]

3 hours ago, HolyCowCm said:

I don't see it that way these days. We have a bunch of great kids in this country now coming up who are eager for and to change. These are the leaders of the future. And yes I have lived a few decades here.

I'd like to think that this bodes well for the future, but unless these "kids" become Generals in the Military, or can largely eliminate corruption, history is likely to repeat itself.

[JamesR]

2 minutes ago, Jason said:

Oh Dear.....what a mess! There's one thing the Thai Government doesn't seem to have taken on board yet (I can only hope they do...for their sakes). Thailand is not the "Covid Free Zone" it was a year or even six months ago. So treating other countries as "Riddled with Covid and not fit to enter our country" was last years narrative. Delta changed a lot. My own country had a large surge in Covid as a result of Delta. So a country that was once a Covid free zone, no longer is. The mindset needs to be a gradual reopening (not boom and the inevitable bust). Tourist hotspots sealed and highly vaccinated. Once the greater population is vaccinated (80% or better of the 15+ population), then an easing of restrictions. Thailand's vaccination rollout has been underwhelming. But don't lose heart! It's been that way pretty much everywhere :) It's the first time in 100 years (since the Spanish flu) that we've had to deal with a global pandemic. 

You said, "It's the first time in 100 years (since the Spanish flu) that we've had to deal with a global pandemic."

That is true, I use that fact to laugh at the conspiracy nutters when they tell us a sinister group has invented the virus just to keep us all in place.

My reply is, "The last serious pandemic was  the Spanish Flu 100 years ago, so they are pretty sh** at controlling us aren't they?"

[palooka]

3 hours ago, TJM said:

It’s obvious that the Thai government is divided on the question of opening the borders to tourists.   How can you open the borders when the schools are still closed ?  

They plan to open November 1.

[Jason]

Oh and to all you "Platinum members" 2500 comments??? Really??? Either you paid a subscription to The Thaiger or you basically spend your entire live on this site.....

[JamesR]

1 hour ago, Soidog said:

Well said  The U.K. is often said to be a risky country, the worst in Europe blah blah. Take Germany for example. It’s reporting around 8,500 cases. Wow, that’s fantastic.  4 to 5 times less than the U.K.  How many tests are they performing? 128,000 a day. Wow, that’s  7 to 8 times less than the U.K.  How about Spain? 8,500 new cases. Wow, that’s 4 times less than U.K.  how many tests? 92,000. That’s almost 10 times less than the U.K.  Italy? 12,000 cases and 125,000 tests. So if we normalise just these European countries based on the testing levels in the U.K. we would get the following daily 7 day average cases:

UK 35,000

Germany 60,000 

Spain 85,000

Italy 75,000

UK not looking too bad now is it ! 

True.

It is like testing software, I write the code which may take weeks of months, once that has been done it is not said to be finished until it has been tested, and at every release it is tested again.

Still of course if I only every did a few tests and tests which I knew would pass and in a very short period of time I would be an instant hero, until later when we find it does not really work.

That was what Sweden did. 

And as far as testing goes or should I say lack of it, that what most countries in the world are doing. 

[mickkotlarski]

1 hour ago, Soidog said:

Well said  The U.K. is often said to be a risky country, the worst in Europe blah blah. Take Germany for example. It’s reporting around 8,500 cases. Wow, that’s fantastic.  4 to 5 times less than the U.K.  How many tests are they performing? 128,000 a day. Wow, that’s  7 to 8 times less than the U.K.  How about Spain? 8,500 new cases. Wow, that’s 4 times less than U.K.  how many tests? 92,000. That’s almost 10 times less than the U.K.  Italy? 12,000 cases and 125,000 tests. So if we normalise just these European countries based on the testing levels in the U.K. we would get the following daily 7 day average cases:

UK 35,000

Germany 60,000 

Spain 85,000

Italy 75,000

UK not looking too bad now is it ! 

That is why the worldometer covid numbers also declare numbers of people recovered, active cases, tests performed etc.

 

[JamesR]

9 minutes ago, Jason said:

Oh and to all you "Platinum members" 2500 comments??? Really??? Either you paid a subscription to The Thaiger or you basically spend your entire live on this site.....

Or maybe they are very fast typists and not very slow two fingered Johnnies?

[JohninDublin]

18 minutes ago, JamesR said:

You said, "It's the first time in 100 years (since the Spanish flu) that we've had to deal with a global pandemic."

That is true, I use that fact to laugh at the conspiracy nutters when they tell us a sinister group has invented the virus just to keep us all in place.

My reply is, "The last serious pandemic was  the Spanish Flu 100 years ago, so they are pretty sh** at controlling us aren't they?"

Ah yes! But you clearly don't understand that the virus was manufactured so that Bill Gates could inject all of us with his micro-chips. Are you aware that Bill Gates is an anagram of "Legit Labs"? What more proof is needed?

[JamesR]

2 minutes ago, JohninDubin said:

Ah yes! But you clearly don't understand that the virus was manufactured so that Bill Gates could inject all of us with his micro-chips. Are you aware that Bill Gates is an anagram of "Legit Labs"? What more proof is needed?

True, there is a world shortage of microchips at the moment, but you and I know what they have been used for.LOL

Another thing which makes me laugh is that Big-pharm in conjunction with 'those in charge' have colluded in order to make a few billion dollars by inventing a bogus virus. 

I ask what about all the other companies, banks, oil/fuel products, airplane manufactures, hotels, all around the world (the list goes on), they have lost trillions of dollars between them during the pandemic, don't they mind?

Those companies are just sitting back letting this happen? I tell them if they are in the know then why don't you give all the other companies your proof and they will give you a billion dollars.

But you have to laugh.

 

[Chaimai]

8 minutes ago, JamesR said:

 

Another thing which makes me laugh is that Big-pharm in conjunction with 'those in charge' have colluded in order to make a few billion dollars by inventing a bogus virus. 

 

But you have to laugh.

I certainly have to laugh..............that 'bogus virus' of yours has increased the profits at my crematorium by GBP 300,000 in the last year or so.

 

Not so funny for the bereaved relatives though.

[JohninDublin]

1 hour ago, Soidog said:

Well said  The U.K. is often said to be a risky country, the worst in Europe blah blah. Take Germany for example. It’s reporting around 8,500 cases. Wow, that’s fantastic.  4 to 5 times less than the U.K.  How many tests are they performing? 128,000 a day. Wow, that’s  7 to 8 times less than the U.K.  How about Spain? 8,500 new cases. Wow, that’s 4 times less than U.K.  how many tests? 92,000. That’s almost 10 times less than the U.K.  Italy? 12,000 cases and 125,000 tests. So if we normalise just these European countries based on the testing levels in the U.K. we would get the following daily 7 day average cases:

UK 35,000

Germany 60,000 

Spain 85,000

Italy 75,000

UK not looking too bad now is it ! 

I think that the suggestion that if the UK level of testing was applied to all countries, we would get those outcomes is a very flawed assumption as it fails to consider what other measures are in place as preventative measures. But if that's the metric you want to choose, then compare the UK to TH which has a similar population. 

The UK has carried out 35X more tests than TH so therefore we would expect based on UK results. 4.8 mill TH deaths, 48 mill active cases, 290 mill infections (requires everyone to be infected 4X). The actual figures are 18k, 107k and 1.8 mill. I accept that if TH tested at the same level as the UK, they would not be so flattering to TH, but even if this increased the "true" figures by 10X, the reality is that TH would still be ahead of the UK on every metric on just about every metric cited by Worldometers with the exception of critical cases.

If you want to limit to cherry-pick the countries you have, then it also needs to be taken into account that the UK, belatedly closed it's borders, while these other countries can't do so because of Schengen. That does not mean that those countries may have hidden problems that are going massively undetected because of different frequency of testing.

Looking at TH in particular, they were performing magnificently, especially compared to the UK, until Delta arrived. High rates of testing are useful, but the results of these can be distorted when number-crunching because of the different measures each country has taken to suppress the virus. The more effective these measures are, the less need there is for testing. 

[JohninDublin]

39 minutes ago, JamesR said:

True, there is a world shortage of microchips at the moment, but you and I know what they have been used for.LOL

Another thing which makes me laugh is that Big-pharm in conjunction with 'those in charge' have colluded in order to make a few billion dollars by inventing a bogus virus. 

I ask what about all the other companies, banks, oil/fuel products, airplane manufactures, hotels, all around the world (the list goes on), they have lost trillions of dollars between them during the pandemic, don't they mind?

Those companies are just sitting back letting this happen? I tell them if they are in the know then why don't you give all the other companies your proof and they will give you a billion dollars.

But you have to laugh.

Ah yes! The old maxim that the more people you have to involve in a conspiracy, the more likely it is to fail, never gets any consideration by the CT brigade.

"The fact there is no evidence proves that it's the Deep State, because only the Deep State could have pulled this off without leaving evidence" What more proof is needed?

[JamesR]

36 minutes ago, Chaimai said:

I certainly have to laugh..............that 'bogus virus' of yours has increased the profits at my crematorium by GBP 300,000 in the last year or so.

Not so funny for the bereaved relatives though.

It is not my 'bogus virus' it is the 'bogus virus' of the mad conspiracy people.

Could you not see the comments from @JohninDubin and me were being sarcastic against conspiracy nutters?

I think the answer is maichai. 

[JamesR]

7 minutes ago, JohninDubin said:

Ah yes! The old maxim that the more people you have to involve in a conspiracy, the more likely it is to fail, never gets any consideration by the CT brigade.

"The fact there is no evidence proves that it's the Deep State, because only the Deep State could have pulled this off without leaving evidence" What more proof is needed?

I wonder where they live these "Deep State" people?

I tried to get £7000 out of my bank account earlier this year in person at the bank, all above board and legitimate, they said I had to fill this and that form in and I said I couldn't be bothered.

So I took £1000 a day from my ATM cash machine, they froze the bank account after four days and sent the police to see me at my house.

The police just laughed as I told them the cash was for a new kitchen etc, they left after a minute and apologised for waiting my time. 

I changed banks a few weeks later.

But my point is I have trouble getting a few quid out of my account in cash, how do all theses Deep State people operate with their billions.

Oh I know, because they are Deep State. 

[Bangkok_Gary]

If a tourist is fully vaccinated it should not matter what country they are coming from. 

[JohninDublin]

2 hours ago, JamesR said:

But in the case of Thailand a claimed 33% have been vaccinated, I am assuming that is only one vaccine shot, so as you say when they do move around again to new jobs created by more tourists or are domestic tourists themselves and all the school reopen I can imagine a sudden sharp and deadly rise in the death rate due to the virus. 

The 33% figure applies to double-vaxxed but most of these will have been Sino vaxxed and will still require a Western vax. A further 16% have received one jab, but again, it is likely that most of this is Sino. It would appear that there is tacit admission that anyone that has not had two jabs including at least one Western shot, is not considered fully vaxxed.

[JohninDublin]

19 minutes ago, JamesR said:

It is not my 'bogus virus' it is the 'bogus virus' of the mad conspiracy people.

Could you not see the comments from @JohninDubin and me were being sarcastic against conspiracy nutters?

I think the answer is maichai. 

SMH.