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Important rules and behaviours for driving in Thailand


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21 minutes ago, Khunwilko said:

totally illogical, - how can they be?

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I think people in London also drive with their eyes closed too as I have seen over the last four months of living there. 

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11 minutes ago, JamesR said:

I think people in London also drive with their eyes closed too as I have seen over the last four months of living there. 

Yet their death rate is one tenth of Thailand's?

I think you just look out of your window and see what you want to see.

There IS a significance difference in these pictures - I'll let you decide.

venn diag .png

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a couple more BTW they are not necessarily London.....

(I used to be a M/C courier in London for a while)

 

 

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17 minutes ago, JamesR said:

I think people in London also drive with their eyes closed too as I have seen over the last four months of living there. 

So how can they be???

I can give you photos of crashes from every country in the world - it doesn't prove a thing.

If you go on Youtube some of the "best" are from Russia, China and the USA.......

How do you make a collision more "serious"???

Think about it - there is an answer but if I tell you ,you won't believe it your cognitive dissonance won't allow you.

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28 minutes ago, JamesR said:

I think people in London also drive with their eyes closed too as I have seen over the last four months of living there. 

So now London is as dangerous as Thailand??

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21 minutes ago, Khunwilko said:

Yet their death rate is one tenth of Thailand's?

I think you just look out of your window and see what you want to see.

There IS a significance difference in these pictures - I'll let you decide.

venn diag .png

I was comparing London driving style to my 27 years of living 30 miles outside, totally different driving style.

So nothing in life we experience can be useful then as we are biased about everything? I wonder how the witness system works in courts then, is all of the evidence ignored as it is biased?

Don't list out the 5E's again or whatever you call them.

 

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22 minutes ago, Khunwilko said:

So how can they be???

I can give you photos of crashes from every country in the world - it doesn't prove a thing.

If you go on Youtube some of the "best" are from Russia, China and the USA.......

How do you make a collision more "serious"???

Think about it - there is an answer but if I tell you ,you won't believe it your cognitive dissonance won't allow you.

Just using phrases from a psychology book at random does not mean anything.

So if a surveyor surveyed houses in one country for 20 years and then surveyed houses in another country for 20 years and found that there were more defects on average in one of the countries we have to ignore him as he is biased as he is not really reporting what he sees happening?

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18 minutes ago, Khunwilko said:

So now London is as dangerous as Thailand??

That is the problem, you put two and two together and make five.

 

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8 minutes ago, JamesR said:

I was comparing London driving style to my 27 years of living 30 miles outside, totally different driving style.

So nothing in life we experience can be useful then as we are biased about everything? I wonder how the witness system works in courts then, is all of the evidence ignored as it is biased?

Don't list out the 5E's again or whatever you call them.

You're just gainsaying and using reductio ad absurdum - or you simply don't understand evidence and how it is used ad gathered

But it is fairly clear that you have spent a life-time misunderstanding te evidence before you.

BTW - I used cover thousands of miles all over UK in private vehicles and trucks - one year I actually clocked up 90,000 miles in one vehicle - I drove extensively around London several times a week and covered the rest of UK and Western Europe as part of my job. There is hardly a road in England and Wales I haven't covered.

I lived in London both north nd South as well as the midlands the North East, West Country and Wales. 

But As I said I worked in a Traffic Engineering department for a large City and that's where I learned to understand what I was looking at.

You also obviously don't know what the 5 Es are or you wouldn't attribute them to me - they are the pillars of  internationally recognised "Safe System" which again is something you know nothing about which is why you don't understand road safety and what is happening on the roads of Thailand.

Edited by Khunwilko
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33 minutes ago, Khunwilko said:

(I used to be a M/C courier in London for a while)

Was that when there were only horses and carts on the road?

 

 

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8 minutes ago, JamesR said:

Just using phrases from a psychology book at random does not mean anything.

So if a surveyor surveyed houses in one country for 20 years and then surveyed houses in another country for 20 years and found that there were more defects on average in one of the countries we have to ignore him as he is biased as he is not really reporting what he sees happening?

you really don't understand do you - that would be a result of compiled statistics not confirmation bias - it's like talking to a brick wall.

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3 minutes ago, Khunwilko said:

You're just gainsaying and using reductio ad absurdum - or you simply don't understand evidence and how it is used ad gathered

But it is fairly clear that you have spent a life-time misunderstanding te evidence before you.

BTW - I used cover thousands of miles all over UK in private vehicles and trucks - one year I actually clocked up 90,000 miles in one vehicle - I drove extensively around London several times a week and covered the rest of UK and Western Europe as part of my job. There is hardly a road in England and Wales I haven't covered.

You said, "BTW - I used cover thousands of miles all over UK in private vehicles and trucks - one year I actually clocked up 90,000 miles in one vehicle - I drove extensively around London several times a week and covered the rest of UK and Western Europe as part of my job. There is hardly a road in England and Wales I haven't covered."

But none of what you saw while doing all of those miles is valid as you're just gainsaying and using reductio ad absurdum - or you simply don't understand evidence and how it is used and gathered.

 

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1 minute ago, JamesR said:

You said, "BTW - I used cover thousands of miles all over UK in private vehicles and trucks - one year I actually clocked up 90,000 miles in one vehicle - I drove extensively around London several times a week and covered the rest of UK and Western Europe as part of my job. There is hardly a road in England and Wales I haven't covered."

But none of what you saw while doing all of those miles is valid as you're just gainsaying and using reductio ad absurdum - or you simply don't understand evidence and how it is used and gathered.

you point being??

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Just now, Khunwilko said:

you really don't understand do you - that would be a result of compiled statistics not confirmation bias - it's like talking to a brick wall.

Except you just told me you drove all those miles around the UK and Europe as though your experience was valid, but everyone else's is not,  it is like talking to a brick wall with brain damage.

You can't have your cake and eat it.😃

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1 minute ago, Khunwilko said:

you point being??

 

1 minute ago, Khunwilko said:

you point being??

I am off now as this circular argument has become boring, I think there is some paint for me to look at while it is drying. 

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54 minutes ago, JamesR said:

I am off now as this circular argument has become boring, I think there is some paint for me to look at while it is drying. 

 

You say the high death rate in Thailand is because “Thais are bad drivers”

You say you see lots of evidence of this

However the number of collisions in Thailand is about the same as in the UK

 

So what you think you see is not backed up by the facts

Next you rely on one statistic only to back up your “bad driving “ hypothesis

 

Well using that statistic we find that UK has one tenth or more the number of fatalities than Thailand with th same number of crashes.

You don’t explain why you think that is.

 

You claim “experience” of driving as a back up – Well, I’ve had more “experience of driving than you in both UK and Thailand (and other countries too) ….but I’ve told you why I don’t consider that important on it’s own. You may also notice I seldom resort to personal anecdote to back up my argument as I know how misleading it can be

What is important is an understanding of road safety and an ability to use critical thinking rather than “seeing is believing” – which quite frankly verges on the naïve and banal.

 

So what you have to do is define “bad driving” and then explain how it leads to the same number of colliosns as in UK but ten times s many deaths.

 

 

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57 minutes ago, JamesR said:

xcept you just told me you drove all those miles around the UK and Europe as though your experience was valid, but everyone else's is not,  i

"But As I said I worked in a Traffic Engineering department for a large City and that's where I learned to understand what I was looking at."

 

Quite the opposite read my post. I guess you don't bother. you are still relying on confirmation bass and cognitive dissonance.

Edited by Khunwilko
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6 hours ago, Khunwilko said:

20 years and half a million KMs -  you're just gainsaying because you don't understand.

confirmation bias—a bias that results from the tendency to process and analyze information in such a way that it supports one's preexisting ideas and convictions.

Seems you have been driving in LOS with your eyes closed, or you are trying to cover up for some reason.

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8 minutes ago, Khunwilko said:

...and finally a conspiracy theory. Seriously! What do you think I'm trying to cover up???

Why don't you actually put forward a real counter argument? Because you can't?

I have on this longish thread, has anyone actually agreed with your theory, if they did, I missed it.....🥴

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25 minutes ago, Transam said:

I have on this longish thread, has anyone actually agreed with your theory, if they did, I missed it.....🥴

No one has argued against it - it's not my Theory - it it the Safe System - it is agrees by such organisations as the Swedish government, the UK government, RoSPa, the WHO Australian State governments, New Zealand Governments  most countries in the EU, safety organisation all over the world - yet you think you know better but can't raise a single counter argument.

Here are just some of the organisations who agree with me

Some of the organizations include

·      The World Health Organization (WHO)  - https://cdn.who.int/media/docs/default-source/thailand/roadsafety/overview-en-final-25-7-19.pdf?sfvrsn=f9d7a862_2

·      Save the children Thailand - https://thailand.savethechildren.net/sites/thailand.savethechildren.net/files/library/Save%20the%20Children’s%20Work%20in%20Road%20Safety%20-%20The%207%25%20Project_1.pdf

·      ThaiRoads Foundation - http://www.thairoads.org/en/

·      International Road Assessment Program (iRAP) and Chulalongkorn University - https://irap.org/2018/11/new-thai-centre-of-excellence-chulalongkorn-university/

·      The Embassy of Sweden is coordinating a group called “the Embassy Friends of Road Safety (EFRS) - https://scandasia.com/tag/the-embassy-friends-of-road-safety-efrs/

·      Thailand Road Safety Observatory, TRSO -=http://www.atransociety.com/resources/pdf/pdfResearch2013-2018/2014/Project2014-006(Dr.Paramet).pdf

·      Arrive Alive - Association of Southeast Asian Nations Regional Road Safety Strategy and Action Plan (2005–2010) - https://www.adb.org/publications/arrive-alive-asean-regional-road-safety-and-action-plan-2005-2010

·      ASEAN TRANSPORT STRATEGIC PLAN 2016-2025 - https://www.itf-oecd.org/asean-transport-strategic-plan-2016-2025-and-progress-road-safety-initiatives

·      EU/ASEAN - https://ec.europa.eu/transport/road_safety/eu-and-asean-exchange-knowledge-and-best-practices-road-safety_en

·      Australia, Safe System Solutions  - https://www.austrade.gov.au/news/success-stories/australian-consultancy-helps-improve-road-safety-in-thailand

·      Bloomberg Philanthropies Initiative for Global Road Safety - https://www.bloomberg.org/public-health/improving-road-safety/

·      Office of Transport & Traffic Policy & Planning(OTP), Ministry of Transport - https://www.mot.go.th/about.html?dsfm_lang=EN&id=12

·      Thai RSC. - Accident road safety Data for Thailand - http://www.thairsc.com/eng/

·      World Bank - https://www.worldbank.org/en/news/feature/2019/03/26/working-towards-improving-road-safety-and-saving-lives-in-thailand

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Khunwilko said:

No one has argued against it - it's not my Theory - it it the Safe System - it is agrees by such organisations as the Swedish government, the UK government, RoSPa, the WHO Australian State governments, New Zealand Governments  most countries in the EU, safety organisation all over the world - yet you think you know better but can't raise a single counter argument.

The Swedes do not have Thai logic drivers in Sweden, in fact, very few countries have the Thai logic/mindset when they get in their ride and close the door.

It is you that doesn't accept it is the main problem in LOS, coupled with no police presence and low fines....

You, will not convince me otherwise, as I see something daft everyday since I have been here, in fact I have used the hooter three times today, the worse was a Grab rider sail straight through a red light in front of me...

Open your eyes chap, stop making excuses for daft road stuff coupled with crazy road death tolls.......😏

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^ As we all know the 5E's or 'safe system' mean SFA to Thai's, Government agencies or drivers.  They do it their way ... (almost a song title) ... anyway, in rebuttal to JamesR ...

I've just returned from 6 days away in deepest darkest Isaan - Khon Kaen, Roi Et, Yasothon, Ubon Ratchathani and almost to SiSaket.  A mere 2,200 km round trip, but one I used to do more frequently 5 to 10 years back.

Observations:-  

Road infrastructure is generally well maintained and there are many re-surfacing projects underway all across the route.   They produce some great roads and new concrete surfaces are smoother than many Aussie highways.

Major works include under & over passes at major junctions, some already complete.  The door to door trip from home to the wife's baan has 40 km's shaved off it as a result of road upgrades.

Unlike JamesR, in 11 years I have never witnessed an accident.  I have seen the aftermath of a few, and perhaps this is what he refers to (?)  I vividly recall passing a dead body in the middle of an intersection in Phitsanoluk, a motorbike rider having been (apparently) thrown from is bike ... must've just happened as no rescue vehicles on site.

This trip we saw only 2 incident sites, no fatalities.  One was a truck and trailer on highway off ramp, the trailer full of glass (bottles?) had flipped on its side, a possible jack knife or mechanical failure.  The other was kind of funny, middle of remote national forest and single lanes, an old overloaded pickup sat astride the west bound lane on its diff!  The rear suspension had collapsed.

It was a good trip and we encountered the usual idiots.  The only potential idiot-accident being of a a pickup passing on double lines, down hill on a blind corner at ~ 90 kmph.

Edit:  Never saw any Police presence the entire trip!  Not even tea-money collections.

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4 hours ago, Transam said:

The Swedes do not have Thai logic drivers in Sweden, in fact, very few countries have the Thai logic/mindset when they get in their ride and close the door.

It is you that doesn't accept it is the main problem in LOS, coupled with no police presence and low fines....

You, will not convince me otherwise, as I see something daft everyday since I have been here, in fact I have used the hooter three times today, the worse was a Grab rider sail straight through a red light in front of me...

Open your eyes chap, stop making excuses for daft road stuff coupled with crazy road death tolls.......😏

I totally agree, I have seen all this sort of stuff in Thailand over the last 30 years.

I did not see this sort of poor driving on a daily basis while working in Sweden, Holland, Germany, Denmark and the USA.

The French drivers in Paris are a bit mad but as we have seen this with our own eyes @Khunwilkowill say it is not valid, only what he sees in his hundreds of thousands of miles of driving is valid.

You have to laugh really.😃

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3 hours ago, KaptainRob said:

^ As we all know the 5E's or 'safe system' mean SFA to Thai's, Government agencies or drivers.  They do it their way ... (almost a song title) ... anyway, in rebuttal to JamesR ...

I've just returned from 6 days away in deepest darkest Isaan - Khon Kaen, Roi Et, Yasothon, Ubon Ratchathani and almost to SiSaket.  A mere 2,200 km round trip, but one I used to do more frequently 5 to 10 years back.

Observations:-  

Road infrastructure is generally well maintained and there are many re-surfacing projects underway all across the route.   They produce some great roads and new concrete surfaces are smoother than many Aussie highways.

Major works include under & over passes at major junctions, some already complete.  The door to door trip from home to the wife's baan has 40 km's shaved off it as a result of road upgrades.

Unlike JamesR, in 11 years I have never witnessed an accident.  I have seen the aftermath of a few, and perhaps this is what he refers to (?)  I vividly recall passing a dead body in the middle of an intersection in Phitsanoluk, a motorbike rider having been (apparently) thrown from is bike ... must've just happened as no rescue vehicles on site.

This trip we saw only 2 incident sites, no fatalities.  One was a truck and trailer on highway off ramp, the trailer full of glass (bottles?) had flipped on its side, a possible jack knife or mechanical failure.  The other was kind of funny, middle of remote national forest and single lanes, an old overloaded pickup sat astride the west bound lane on its diff!  The rear suspension had collapsed.

It was a good trip and we encountered the usual idiots.  The only potential idiot-accident being of a a pickup passing on double lines, down hill on a blind corner at ~ 90 kmph.

Edit:  Never saw any Police presence the entire trip!  Not even tea-money collections.

I will re-word my comment, yes I see the evidence of an accident many times, not the actual accident happening, I am assuming the accidents were not stunts and were real accidents.

I have seen lots of near misses though through bad driving/riding. 

I see the aftermath of an accident in the UK every few years, one thing I notice though is the cars in Thailand seemed to be completely wrecked on many occasions due to speeding I assume.

Yes, in the south around Phuket and on to the Krabi area going onto Surat Thani there has been a huge number of country roads turned into dual-carriageways (highways in Thailand), they are great and cut the journey from Phuket to the Nakhon se Thammarat region by 1.5 hours.

That has not caused any improvement in the driving ability I see on a daily basis.

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3 hours ago, KaptainRob said:

Road infrastructure is generally well maintained and there are many re-surfacing projects underway all across the route.   They produce some great roads and new concrete surfaces are smoother than many Aussie highways.

One of the advantages of Covid: Lots of money into road projects NOW.

Despite the fact, that most of the workers are not Thai, the government did not let the road construction companies go dry!

In best case, at least here in Phuket, they just did already planed re-surfacing a year or so earlier. In worst case: They just thrown out the money to the "pals" with the brown envelopes!

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