News Forum - Final arguments Tuesday on dual pricing suit against Health Ministry

[Stonker]

3 hours ago, yetanother said:

... and those who are retired in Thailand."

{emphasis added}

prime example why many of us , long retired here, heavily contributing to the thai economy and society feel treated as second-class citizens

Maybe you should compare like for like and what a Thai needs to "contribute" in order to get a retirement visa in the UK or western Europe - if they can get one at all as most, including the UK, don't even allow for retirement visas / extensions.

[Stonker]

7 hours ago, sputnik said:

...but does anyone remember when a falang win in a thai court  the last time ?..

Andy Hall vs Thailand's Natural Fruit Co springs to mind.

[Stonker]

2 hours ago, Haole.TH said:

Why don't you give some examples and list the country?  Especially since you guarantee it ... 
The only area I can think of is non-residents in US Universities pay more.  This also includes US citizens from other states in some cases

How many do you want?

The NHS in the UK. Pretty well everything in Venice.

Foreign students at unis virtually everywhere.

The list is endless.

[Stonker]

2 hours ago, Bob20 said:

In England the NHS is free at point of delivery, but any foreign visitor can't expect the same and otherwise call it discriminatory.

Sorry, @Bob20, but that's not correct.

The NHS is only "free at point of delivery" for A &E treatment, nothing else.

Anything else and any "foreign visitor" pays 150% of the bill unless they're "ordinarily resident" - and it's much easier for a Brit to be ordinarily resident than a foreigner even if the foreigner's paying taxes and the Brit isn't and never has.

[Stonker]

6 hours ago, stuhan said:

(snip) ...discrimination against me as guest expat in this country.

You must be very speshul - I never got an invitation to be a guest here.

[Faz]

54 minutes ago, Stonker said:

No "full check up" at my local (state) hospital, has ever cost me more than a few hundred baht including blood and urine analysis, x-ray and EKG, and my quarterly "check up" /  chat with the doctor costs me 50 baht.

I can concur with your experiences @Stonker.

When I originally registered at my local government hospital, I was issued a registration ID and card.

I had a groin hernia operation with a 1 night stay in a private room (my preference) and was charged 11,000 baht. However they incorrect charged for 2 nights in a private room, but were quick to reimburse 1500 baht very apologetically.
Never charged more than 50 baht for a consultation or treatment as an out patient, with the exception of any prescription for medication, which by the way is far cheaper than any pharmacy would charge.

[Robert2020]

NOW WE KNOW WHY THAILAND WANTS RICH TOURISTS__HAHAHAHA

 

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Edited September 18, 2021 by Faz
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[Stonker]

1 hour ago, Faz said:

I can concur with your experiences @Stonker.

When I originally registered at my local government hospital, I was issued a registration ID and card.

I had a groin hernia operation with a 1 night stay in a private room (my preference) and was charged 11,000 baht. However they incorrect charged for 2 nights in a private room, but were quick to reimburse 1500 baht very apologetically.
Never charged more than 50 baht for a consultation or treatment as an out patient, with the exception of any prescription for medication, which by the way is far cheaper than any pharmacy would charge.

Glad I'm not the only one - I was beginning to think it was my charm!

A "VIP" room at the local hospital here costs 750 baht a day (500 baht for a "short time"!) and while basic it has a farang toilet, small balcony, fridge, microwave and TV, plus a daybed for a guest.

When at the provincial hospital in Loei for a four day stay (only tests, thank God) they didn't have any VIP rooms available but after half an hour in the ward they put me in the brand new "Buddhist Monk Wing" (either 750 or 1,000 baht a night, I can't remember) - smaller than private rooms in Bangkok Hospital group, from 15,000 baht ++, but better - balcony, en suite, all electric bed, flat screen TV, day bed for a guest, etc, plus a choice of farang or Thai food (rather better than the ASQ offerings shown here), fresh fruit, milk etc, all included. No women allowed to sit on the bed, and all trimmed in orange, but it was the Buddhist Monk Wing.

When I've needed A & E a few times, such as when I parked the sidestand of my bike on my toe, I was triaged to the front of the queue, except for once, quite rightly, when a car crash victim arrived.

OK, it'd be free for Thais, or 30 baht, but it's 50 baht FFS!

[dimitri]

20 hours ago, Bob20 said:

But it actually cost 1/10th of the costs in Europe, with first class service and virtually no waiting anywhere.

 

My international health insurance needs to approve the choice of hospital in Thailand. When I asked "WHY?" they told me that some hospitals in Thailand are much much more expensive than Hospitals in NL.

 

 

 

[dimitri]

On 9/17/2021 at 11:07 PM, Marc26 said:

There is dual pricing all over the world 

Residents and citizens get all sort of discounts on museums, parks, transportation, ski mountains

Pick any country and I guarantee you will find instances where they have resident/city discounts at all types of attractions

 

Ok, I pick The Netherlands. Just give me an example...

 

There are discounts, but not based on nationality or race. The only discounts you will find are for example discounts with membership cards.  You can buy one for museums, pay for a yearly subscription. These cards are maybe less interesting for someone who visits for a week. But if that person was living here they would be able to get the same.

 

 

[dimitri]

19 hours ago, Stonker said:

Try a search for "dual pricing venice" for dual pricing that puts anything here in the shade for just about anything, even public transport.

The UK's not EU anymore, but arguably still Europe, and British nationals have much easier conditions (just ordinarily resident) for full entitlement to NHS health care than non-Brits even if they're taxpayers.

The one thing Thailand is very easily verifiable as here is NOT an "exception", however much some may like it to be.

 

You forgot to mention an important detail after searching for  "dual pricing venice"  One of the articles mentioned: "However, the European Commission is changing this."  Simply because it goes against the law.  And another thing you forgot to mention: It's about residents, the handful of people actually living in Venice. If a Thai person was living in Venice he would get the same discounts.

 

The last thing I heard about the NHS is that it's one of the reasons illegal immigrants like going to the UK. Easy access to free healthcare.

 

Now give me a good example of dual pricing in Europe...  I have never seen it. And for sure not like in Thailand.

 

 

Edited September 18, 2021 by dimitri

[cockneyboy]

1 hour ago, dimitri said:

Ok, I pick The Netherlands. Just give me an example...

There are discounts, but not based on nationality or race. The only discounts you will find are for example discounts with membership cards.  You can buy one for museums, pay for a yearly subscription. These cards are maybe less interesting for someone who visits for a week. But if that person was living here they would be able to get the same.

Public Dutch universities charge tuition fees to all international students regardless of their country of origin. However, students coming from the EU/EEA, Switzerland and Surinam often pay lower tuition fees than non-EU/EEA students.

[HiuMak]

3 hours ago, dimitri said:

My international health insurance needs to approve the choice of hospital in Thailand. When I asked "WHY?" they told me that some hospitals in Thailand are much much more expensive than Hospitals in NL.

Irregardless residents should get local insurance medical coverage and tourist should get travel insurance, which makes sense. At least in any countries even if they practise dual pricing, you are more or less covered. I always do.

[Marc26]

4 hours ago, dimitri said:

Ok, I pick The Netherlands. Just give me an example...

There are discounts, but not based on nationality or race. The only discounts you will find are for example discounts with membership cards.  You can buy one for museums, pay for a yearly subscription. These cards are maybe less interesting for someone who visits for a week. But if that person was living here they would be able to get the same.

The 2nd post on Google is Dutch residents discounts at museums

Another link is transportation rates aimed at residents 

 

Just for good measure, another link is the city of Amsterdam raising tax on tourists "to take back the city for it's residents "

 

https://www.google.com/search?ie=UTF-8&client=ms-android-bell-ca-revc&source=android-browser&q=amsterdam+residents+discount

 

It literally happens, in some form, in all countries 

Edited September 19, 2021 by Marc26

[Bob20]

14 minutes ago, Marc26 said:

The 2nd post on Google is Dutch residents discounts at museums

Another link is transportation rates aimed at residents 

Just for good measure, another link is the city of Amsterdam raising tax on tourists "to take back the city for it's residents "

https://www.google.com/search?ie=UTF-8&client=ms-android-bell-ca-revc&source=android-browser&q=amsterdam+residents+discount

It literally happens, in some form, in all countries 

 

Not entirely correct The museum card must be purchased and is valid for residents and tourists alike, just expires earlier for tourists (as they're not expected to be there longer than a month). If you're an expat, you're a resident.

And the "tourist" tax is a flat rate nightly charge that hotels charge. But they charge it to all guests, foreigners as well as Dutch.

The transport cards are valid for everyone too (with for example age discount for all).

And, in reverse, the 3, 5 and 7 days tourist cards could be purchased by Dutch residents as well.

Seems pretty balanced.

 

[9S_]

On 9/18/2021 at 4:07 AM, Marc26 said:

There is dual pricing all over the world 

Residents and citizens get all sort of discounts on museums, parks, transportation, ski mountains

Pick any country and I guarantee you will find instances where they have resident/city discounts at all types of attractions

Disneyland and Six Flags have dual pricing based on your zip code. 
 

California universities have dual acceptance requirements. If you live in a certain school district then you’re guaranteed a seat at the university. Tuition is also dual priced. Live in the state? Then your tuition is drastically cheaper than if you came outside of the state. 

[Stonker]

5 hours ago, dimitri said:

You forgot to mention an important detail after searching for  "dual pricing venice"  One of the articles mentioned: "However, the European Commission is changing this."  Simply because it goes against the law.

I didn't "forget" it at all - it hasn't happened yet so nothing's changed.

5 hours ago, dimitri said:

And another thing you forgot to mention: It's about residents, the handful of people actually living in Venice. If a Thai person was living in Venice he would get the same discounts.

I didn't "forget" that either as it's incorrect.

"Living in" is not "resident", in Venice, Thailand, or anywhere else.

I've been living in Thailand for nearly thirty years but I'm not resident here nor have I ever asked to be.

5 hours ago, dimitri said:

The last thing I heard about the NHS is that it's one of the reasons illegal immigrants like going to the UK. Easy access to free healthcare.

What you or illegal immigrants have "heard" doesn't make it correct - it isn't, as any of the many links I've given to the NHS confirm.

 

5 hours ago, dimitri said:

Now give me a good example of dual pricing in Europe...  I have never seen it. And for sure not like in Thailand.

I already have, as have plenty of others, and all are very easily verifiable, but you choose to write them off on the grounds that you "have never seen it" or that it's not what you've "heard".

Up to you if you choose to remain in denial and ignorant.

 

[Stonker]

5 hours ago, dimitri said:

My international health insurance needs to approve the choice of hospital in Thailand. When I asked "WHY?" they told me that some hospitals in Thailand are much much more expensive than Hospitals in NL.

Of course it does, and of course they are - that applies in any and every country.

No health insurance will allow you to arbitrarily choose any hospital anywhere or the level of treatment / care / options you receive without their approval.

 

[Bob20]

23 hours ago, Stonker said:

Sorry, @Bob20, but that's not correct.

The NHS is only "free at point of delivery" for A &E treatment, nothing else.

Anything else and any "foreign visitor" pays 150% of the bill unless they're "ordinarily resident" - and it's much easier for a Brit to be ordinarily resident than a foreigner even if the foreigner's paying taxes and the Brit isn't and never has.

If you read my post, I'm saying it's free at the point of delivery for UK residents and that I don't see why it should be free for foreigners.

If you're in "disagreement mode" today, at least quote me correctly

[Bob20]

12 minutes ago, Stonker said:

I didn't "forget" it at all - it hasn't happened yet so nothing's changed.

I didn't "forget" that either as it's incorrect.

"Living in" is not "resident", in Venice, Thailand, or anywhere else.

I've been living in Thailand for nearly thirty years but I'm not resident here nor have I ever asked to be.

What you or illegal immigrants have "heard" doesn't make it correct - it isn't, as any of the many links I've given to the NHS confirm.

I already have, as have plenty of others, and all are very easily verifiable, but you choose to write them off on the grounds that you "have never seen it" or that it's not what you've "heard".

Up to you if you choose to remain in denial and ignorant.

Could it be that Dimitri is simply confusing "immigrant" and "resident"?

I'd he holds a non-immigrant visa, fair enough. But if for 30 years this is his "home" then he is definitely a resident here.

[Stonker]

30 minutes ago, Bob20 said:

If you read my post, I'm saying it's free at the point of delivery for UK residents and that I don't see why it should be free for foreigners.

I read and re-read your post, @Bob20, and that's NOT what you said, however much you may have meant it to be.

Here's your entire post, which I quoted from in full, unedited (the complete paragraph):

On 9/18/2021 at 9:18 AM, Bob20 said:

In England the NHS is free at point of delivery, but any foreign visitor can't expect the same and otherwise call it discriminatory.

For the same reason, we can't expect subsidised treatment here.

There will be instances that you can shop around for the hospital of your choice, but there will be emergencies when you can NOT... The bills need to be paid just the same.

If you have enough funds to take care of hospital bills, by all means take the risk.

If not, choose insurance.

I wrote a small opinion piece on it some time ago:

Very clearly, NO mention of "for UK residents" either in your post or in the post you quoted, even if you meant there to be.

[Bob20]

15 minutes ago, Stonker said:

I read and re-read your post, @Bob20, and that's NOT what you said, however much you may have meant it to be.

Here's your entire post, which I quoted from in full, unedited (the complete paragraph):

Very clearly, NO mention of "for UK residents" either in your post or in the post you quoted, even if you meant there to be.

Well, reread it again

In England the NHS is free at point of delivery, but any foreign visitor can't expect the same and otherwise call it discriminatory.

.

Foreigner: I want free treatment same as the UK residents

NHS: No! You have to pay!

Foreigner: That's discrimination!!

.

I can explain it with LEGO too

[AdvocatusDiaboli]

Yes we all know countries have dual pricing when it comes to certain things. Me for example I receive two shots of Pfizer instead of Sinovac …. Now how is this Fair!!!

[Bob20]

Just now, AdvocatusDiaboli said:

Yes we all know countries have dual pricing when it comes to certain things. Me for example I receive two shots of Pfizer instead of Sinovac …. Now how is this Fair!!!

It's okay. I've signed you up for Sinovac as your third shot

[AdvocatusDiaboli]

Just now, Bob20 said:

It's okay. I've signed you up for Sinovac as your third shot

Hey your taking your job as assistant health minister way to seriously . I may have to do a government move on you and push you to the back benches closer to the door, and loo