News Forum - Will it, won’t it? October re-opening in doubt as Anutin defers to medical experts

[JackIsAGoodBoy]

36 minutes ago, Stonker said:

Great idea, though hardly original.

Maybe you could explain how to do that when over a third of the country are over 60 or have underlying medical conditions?

Maybe not ...

They did not care much about them before this in Thailand. If you need some surgery or some other operation fast, you pay from your own wallet or wait for the slow national health care system to take care of it. Most do not have any private insurance.

A lot of pearl clutching from well-to-do farangs with no idea how Thais actually live and how much they earn or have savings.

[divrg]

On 9/17/2021 at 6:04 AM, Alan8505 said:

Thai authorities seem to think that tourists will “jump through any hoop” that they specify to come to Thailand. Sadly, even after “reopening” I think they may have a rude awakening.

We all learn to take things for granted that have been to easy for a long time. Thats true for all peoples and cultures.

[JohninDublin]

1 hour ago, Stardust said:

Learn to read there was never something about it! If you not able  to read it is your own problem! I wrote about conditions from many Thaifamilies. But your one of these who reacts only when see some key words without reading the content. And I guess not care of these conditions only make a view on the own selfish perspective from a privilegded perspektive and expect everybody hast to be ordered in the same way even when a majority of Thai people cannot afford it to do the same. And not even to read and completly offtopic on my comments gives a view on the ignorance of this writers.

I think it's quite clear from my posts that I can read. It's somewhat ironic that you accuse me of ignorance when you seem totally unable to answer what it ultimately a "Yes" or "No" question.

It seems to me that you are the person with comprehension problems so I will remind you yet again of my original question to you where I asked, were you implying that lockdowns don't work? My question was nothing to do with the economic impact of these, but as a disease prevention device.

Is there any part of that you don't understand before you post your next obfuscation? 

[BlueSphinx]

4 minutes ago, JohninDubin said:

I think it's quite clear from my posts that I can read. It's somewhat ironic that you accuse me of ignorance when you seem totally unable to answer what it ultimately a "Yes" or "No" question.

It seems to me that you are the person with comprehension problems so I will remind you yet again of my original question to you where I asked, were you implying that lockdowns don't work? My question was nothing to do with the economic impact of these, but as a disease prevention device.

Is there any part of that you don't understand before you post your next obfuscation? 

Simple and straightforward answer > NO, lock-downs don't work as a disease prevention device, at most they can buy some time...

[Bob20]

2 minutes ago, BlueSphinx said:

Simple and straightforward answer > NO, lock-downs don't work as a disease prevention device, at most they can buy some time...

 

As buying time prevents people from getting ill and dying in that time, the answer is YES. And if the authorities had done a good job, then in that time they'd have vaccinated. Then not only had they prevented excess misery from sickness and death during a proper lockdown, but we would have come out of it prepared too.

[Stonker]

1 hour ago, BlueSphinx said:

Nope, as I am not afraid of catching the virus, as there are highly effective curative/preventive remedies and catching it - as eventually everybody will - provides you with the Bonus of long-lasting natural immunity against any covid-variants. 

As long as you don't die of it first, or have any lasting effects - that could be a bit of a downer.

Being vaccinated before catching it, at least with a decent vaccine, would reduce the chances of that happening by around 95% (90% after six months according to the latest evidence from PHE), and being vaccinated after catching it would further halve the chances of it happening again - although the "long lasting natural immunity" also declines over time in a similar way.

The idea that "there are highly effective curative/preventive remedies" is sadly delusional - there are no preventive remedies at all, and the supposed curative remedies are marginal and unproven at best.

1 hour ago, BlueSphinx said:

I am not vaccinated, and don't intend to take the jab(s).

Splendid.  All the more for those who do.

[JohninDublin]

4 minutes ago, BlueSphinx said:

Simple and straightforward answer > NO, lock-downs don't work as a disease prevention device, at most they can buy some time...

So let me see if I understand you? This disease is transmitted by close human contact. How does the disease transmit when the infected humans are separated the uninfected?

[Stardust]

4 minutes ago, JohninDubin said:

I think it's quite clear from my posts that I can read. It's somewhat ironic that you accuse me of ignorance when you seem totally unable to answer what it ultimately a "Yes" or "No" question.

It seems to me that you are the person with comprehension problems so I will remind you yet again of my original question to you where I asked, were you implying that lockdowns don't work? My question was nothing to do with the economic impact of these, but as a disease prevention device.

Is there any part of that you don't understand before you post your next obfuscation? 

I guess you have no children thats you don't get the point. Out there are people who have to feed families and cannot aford to stay years locked. And sombody who would choose to sacrifice his children never had one. Do you think all Thais live on a pension or digital nomads to pay their bills, pay school and food. It is incredible some comments and their ignorance and thinking all Thai families are privileged like them and to thonk they would let starving their families and children. As a parent I can tell you never ever parents will do that and before they would give their life for the children. But go think parents would sacrifice their children for people like or let them starving shows how selfish your thinking is. Guys like you expect that their life is more important thaf the childrens life. People who have children and have to care for a family understand the situation and would never expect that they would stop to care for their because of some privileged egoistic people they doesnt know know anything to care for a family and children. If you wanna do somdthing lock yourself but never expect the majority if Thais can afford to be locked over years especially the ones with family. It is a sad thing to explain that to an adult.

[Stonker]

4 hours ago, Leeshard said:

In fact tourists represent a smaller risk because 100% of them are fully vaccinated whereas a very significant percentage of the Thai population are not. 

Tourists aren't the problem - tourism is, because the tourists need everything that tourism needs: no travel restrictions, bars and restaurants open, fully staffed, etc. etc.

If you could have tourists without tourism, fine - but you can't.

[Stardust]

12 minutes ago, JohninDubin said:

So let me see if I understand you? This disease is transmitted by close human contact. How does the disease transmit when the infected humans are separated the uninfected?

Omg. People go working in their factories and brought it home long time ago and there it can spread. This happened already a year ago. And it seams you dont know anything about the Thai life, often with big families live under one roof or room. This happened while a lockdown!

[Stonker]

14 minutes ago, Stardust said:

I guess you have no children thats you don't get the point. Out there are people who have to feed families and cannot aford to stay years locked. And sombody who would choose to sacrifice his children never had one. Do you think all Thais live on a pension or digital nomads to pay their bills, pay school and food. It is incredible some comments and their ignorance and thinking all Thai families are privileged like them and to thonk they would let starving their families and children. As a parent I can tell you never ever parents will do that and before they would give their life for the children. But go think parents would sacrifice their children for people like or let them starving shows how selfish your thinking is. Guys like you expect that their life is more important thaf the childrens life. People who have children and have to care for a family understand the situation and would never expect that they would stop to care for their because of some privileged egoistic people they doesnt know know anything to care for a family and children. If you wanna do somdthing lock yourself but never expect the majority if Thais can afford to be locked over years especially the ones with family. It is a sad thing to explain that to an adult.

What absolute, self-serving waffle.

If you have Covid you'll be unable to look after your family, as you will if you die from Covid.

You may have made no provision for your family and be unable to take care of them - I don't know, but that's certainly the impression you give, asserting that it follows that as a result you "know" what it's like while anyone who doesn't agree with you is "selfish ... ignorant ... privileged ... egoistic... etc".

Fortunately most (but far from all) Thais are a bit more considerate of others than you appear to be and a bit more realistic, and most Thais very clearly don't go along with how you want things to be and they don't want Pattaya and places like it to re-open yet.

[JohninDublin]

24 minutes ago, Stardust said:

I guess you have no children thats you don't get the point. Out there are people who have to feed families and cannot aford to stay years locked. And sombody who would choose to sacrifice his children never had one. Do you think all Thais live on a pension or digital nomads to pay their bills, pay school and food. It is incredible some comments and their ignorance and thinking all Thai families are privileged like them and to thonk they would let starving their families and children. As a parent I can tell you never ever parents will do that and before they would give their life for the children. But go think parents would sacrifice their children for people like or let them starving shows how selfish your thinking is. Guys like you expect that their life is more important thaf the childrens life. People who have children and have to care for a family understand the situation and would never expect that they would stop to care for their because of some privileged egoistic people they doesnt know know anything to care for a family and children. If you wanna do somdthing lock yourself but never expect the majority if Thais can afford to be locked over years especially the ones with family. It is a sad thing to explain that to an adult.

What has that got to do with whether lockdowns work or not? Shooting the messenger does not change the message.

Instead of answering the question, you keep referring to the relative impoverishment of TH, while trying to portray me as some some sort of callous monster. My question was not whether lockdowns are harmless, but whether they reduce the health hazards from CV. Specifically regarding TH, In 2019, Tourism accounted for 18% of GDP. This collapsed to less than 7% in 2020, and will be even lower this year. In many countries, Thailand is red-listed and at current rates this will continue for some time.

Regardless of whether TH has lockdowns or not, on the one hand, you have the TH gov placing onerous conditions on foreign visitors to TH, while on the other, you have other govs telling their citizens that if they are prepared to undergo the conditions set by TH, when they return home, they will have undergo further restrictions. For the TH tourist economy to recover, they have to bite the bullet. Whether the people can afford it and what the gov should do about assisting these people is a totally different issue.

But let's say there are no lockdowns and the disease is instead allowed to run it's course, how bad do you think the situation would be in RLD's like Pattaya and BKK? Do you really believe that tourists will want to go to a country, where regardless of their partaking in what the RLD's have to offer, their risk of becoming infected increases dramatically?

It seems to me, that your real issue is not that lockdowns don't work, but that the gov should be giving handouts to those affected by these. Now what would be the point of paying people to go into lockdown, if lockdowns don't work in the first place.

The fact that you would approve lockdowns if the gov helped out, seems to undermine your original implication that lockdowns don't work. You can't have it both ways. Either they work or they don't. What aid the gov should give if they impose a lockdown, is a totally different issue.

[JohninDublin]

50 minutes ago, Stardust said:

Omg. People go working in their factories and brought it home long time ago and there it can spread. This happened already a year ago. And it seams you dont know anything about the Thai life, often with big families live under one roof or room. This happened while a lockdown!

For someone who implied I lack comprehension skills, you certainly do yourself no favours in that department. Did you not see the part where I said, "How does the disease transmit when the infected humans are separated the uninfected"? AS people become infected, you separate them, and if possible, do contact tracing as well.

[DiJoDavO]

Ask the medical experts means we live forever in a quarantine until they found a vaccine that makes you live forever and you become immune to death. If you want to go outside, you only can go out in a hazmat suit. But don't go outside because it's too dangerous! 

Also don't stand up, from your couch, because you may slip and fall down and die. Also don't sit too long, because your legs will go numb and you might get problems with blood clots. Also don't try to breathe because there's either Covid or Pm2.5. 

What kind of world do they want to create? Just open up, and keep people quarantined or vaccinate the ones who are vulnerable.

There are 2 types of medical experts. One group which the news pays attention to (which is the one that are almost cumming in their pants to the thought of having everyone locked in their houses. 

Another group, which no one pays attention to, only in a negative light, proves time after time that there are ways to prevent covid more conveniently, and that Covid actually isn't that bad. 

Maybe it's time that people just think for themselves from now on. And let them decide what's the best way to deal with it.

[JohninDublin]

41 minutes ago, Stonker said:

What absolute, self-serving waffle.

If you have Covid you'll be unable to look after your family, as you will if you die from Covid.

You may have made no provision for your family and be unable to take care of them - I don't know, but that's certainly the impression you give, asserting that it follows that as a result you "know" what it's like while anyone who doesn't agree with you is "selfish ... ignorant ... privileged ... egoistic... etc".

Fortunately most (but far from all) Thais are a bit more considerate of others than you appear to be and a bit more realistic, and most Thais very clearly don't go along with how you want things to be and they don't want Pattaya and places like it to re-open yet.

You really should take a look at the thread between @Stardustand I.It starts off with his implication lockdowns don't work then it becomes an attack on me because I am not attacking the TH gov for failing to offer financial aid to those in lockdown. It seems that he really does believe that lockdowns work, as long as the gov gives a bail-out. Hmmm?

[Bob20]

1 minute ago, DiJoDavO said:

 

What kind of world do they want to create? 

Maybe it's time that people just think for themselves from now on. And let them decide what's the best way to deal with it.

Well, not the world that you suggest, where everyone does what he/she decides without thought for society as a whole.

If you fall over and break a leg, that's your problem.

If you carry a virus and can transmit it to others, the decision is not only up to you anymore.

[JohninDublin]

8 minutes ago, DiJoDavO said:

 Another group, which no one pays attention to, only in a negative light, proves time after time that there are ways to prevent covid more conveniently, and that Covid actually isn't that bad. 

So far, over 225 mill have been infected with CV. Of those, 1 in 3 will suffer "long covid" which means they are unlikely to be able for a year or so (75 Mill). The mortality rate is 2% (It was 5% before therapeutics were developed) (4.7 mill). I think that's a lot of people and their families who will disagree with the claim that a disease that kills or has long term disability for 35% of it's victims "actually isn't that bad".

 

[DiJoDavO]

6 minutes ago, Bob20 said:

Well, not the world that you suggest, where everyone does what he/she decides without thought for society as a whole.

If you fall over and break a leg, that's your problem.

If you carry a virus and can transmit it to others, the decision is not only up to you anymore.

Maybe they should just open up only for people who are not afraid and put the ones who are afraid of the virus in some kind of quarantine. That's what those people love, quarantine, so just do it. 

But people who just want to go outside and be back to normal should be able to go back to normal life, continuing their business which had to close and having fun again. 

By the way, this virus is only dangerous because people are weakening their immune system staying at home all day. Also for people with underlying health problems. Which definitely isn't the majority. 

It's nearly impossible to die from Covid if you are a normal healthy person. 

Besides that, even the mainstream media is now reporting that having had Covid is a better way to be immune to it than a vaccine. So why not just opening up again? 

Ps. It's almost as if you are waiting for my posts. Glad you like to read them

[Bob20]

11 minutes ago, DiJoDavO said:

Maybe they should just open up only for people who are not afraid and put the ones who are afraid of the virus in some kind of quarantine. That's what those people love, quarantine, so just do it. 

But people who just want to go outside and be back to normal should be able to go back to normal life, continuing their business which had to close and having fun again. 

By the way, this virus is only dangerous because people are weakening their immune system staying at home all day. Also for people with underlying health problems. Which definitely isn't the majority. 

It's nearly impossible to die from Covid if you are a normal healthy person. 

Besides that, even the mainstream media is now reporting that having had Covid is a better way to be immune to it than a vaccine. So why not just opening up again? 

Ps. It's almost as if you are waiting for my posts. Glad you like to read them

Glad you've got a sense of humour

Selective opening is another really good idea.

Almost as good as telling the water which hole in the colindar it can and can't use.

[DiJoDavO]

5 minutes ago, JohninDubin said:

23 minutes ago, DiJoDavO said:

 Another group, which no one pays attention to, only in a negative light, proves time after time that there are ways to prevent covid more conveniently, and that Covid actually isn't that bad. 

So far, over 225 mill have been infected with CV. Of those, 1 in 3 will suffer "long covid" which means they are unlikely to be able for a year or so (75 Mill). The mortality rate is 2% (It was 5% before therapeutics were developed) (4.7 mill). I think that's a lot of people and their families who will disagree with the claim that a disease that kills or has long term disability for 35% of it's victims "actually isn't that bad".

Again such a word to make it more scary 'long covid'. 

Robert Malone, the guy who focused his work on mRNA vaccines, who is an immunologist and virologist says there's actually no such thing. 

It might take a bit longer for you to get back on track, but it's not what they want you to believe that the damage is permanent. 

If someone has that, it just means they have a crappy immune system. If my immune system is shit, whatever makes me sick, will last a long time. 

We are all saying the vaccines will help to prevent Covid, but little do they know that with a weak vaccine, we are only letting the virus escape each time, because it gets a chance to mutate or to get immune to the vaccine. Especially when giving such a vaccine during a pandemic. 

Nobody seems to be trying to prevent it, but only making it worse. 

Stay home (no sun, no exposure to germs) 

Keep using alcohol gel (no exposure to germs) 

Keep distance from each other. (a thing a child needs the most is love and connection) 

Don't go to the park or to the beach (where the sun is, which has been proven to be effective against the virus) 

Ridicule all medicines which work for a lot of people. (only vaccines are allowed, which can immunize the virus) 

But this is all just common sense, and you will always get attacked by numbers which whotf knows put out there. 

As said in another post, there are plenty of cases where the media has lied and even debunked their past stories. The media are not a good source of information nowadays. They can put whatever made up number out there and people say it's true. Just because it's in a news article. 

[DiJoDavO]

9 minutes ago, Bob20 said:

Glad you've got a sense of humour

Selective opening is another really good idea.

Almost as good as telling the water which hole in the colindar it can and can't use.

It's not selective reopening per se. It's just reopening for everyone. That doesn't mean they force you outside. You may still be at home if you wish. You have the freedom to choose to go back to business, travel, do what you want, or just stay home keep up to date with the fearporn that is being fed to the people. 

Today I went outside again. It's a bit quiet, because there's still a lockdown. But if I look at daily life, it's almost as if there's no death and misery in the world. 

[ThailandRyan]

6 minutes ago, DiJoDavO said:

It's not selective reopening per se. It's just reopening for everyone. That doesn't mean they force you outside. You may still be at home if you wish. You have the freedom to choose to go back to business, travel, do what you want, or just stay home keep up to date with the fearporn that is being fed to the people. 

Today I went outside again. It's a bit quiet, because there's still a lockdown. But if I look at daily life, it's almost as if there's no death and misery in the world. 

Fearporn, you guys actually make me laugh all day long with your certain views.  Sure we can agree to disagree but when you use terms like yu do you just are not agreeing  to disagree but instead are choosing to name call folks who do not agree with your views.....shame on you.

[JohninDublin]

13 minutes ago, DiJoDavO said:

Again such a word to make it more scary 'long covid'. 

Robert Malone, the guy who focused his work on mRNA vaccines, who is an immunologist and virologist says there's actually no such thing. 

It might take a bit longer for you to get back on track, but it's not what they want you to believe that the damage is permanent. 

If someone has that, it just means they have a crappy immune system. If my immune system is shit, whatever makes me sick, will last a long time. 

We are all saying the vaccines will help to prevent Covid, but little do they know that with a weak vaccine, we are only letting the virus escape each time, because it gets a chance to mutate or to get immune to the vaccine. Especially when giving such a vaccine during a pandemic. 

Nobody seems to be trying to prevent it, but only making it worse. 

Stay home (no sun, no exposure to germs) 

Keep using alcohol gel (no exposure to germs) 

Keep distance from each other. (a thing a child needs the most is love and connection) 

Don't go to the park or to the beach (where the sun is, which has been proven to be effective against the virus) 

Ridicule all medicines which work for a lot of people. (only vaccines are allowed, which can immunize the virus) 

But this is all just common sense, and you will always get attacked by numbers which whotf knows put out there. 

As said in another post, there are plenty of cases where the media has lied and even debunked their past stories. The media are not a good source of information nowadays. They can put whatever made up number out there and people say it's true. Just because it's in a news article. 

That's quite an interesting post you make there.

Robert Malone says it doesn't exist. Can you provide his peer reviewed study proving this. During the meantime, there is an article in the highly respected Nature Magazine which contradicts this. Indeed you yourself go on to say, "If someone has that, it just means they have a crappy immune system. If my immune system is shit, whatever makes me sick, will last a long time". You can't have it both ways. Either it exist or it doesn't. And of course, nobody claimed that long covid is permanent. https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01511-z

There is also plenty of evidence that vaxxing has reduced mortality rates, and that those who have been vaxxed and are still infected, have better outcomes than the unvaxxed.

If you want to challenge my numbers, the source is https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#main_table  They source the numbers from official gov statements from the countries listed.

 

[DiJoDavO]

3 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

Fearporn, you guys actually make me laugh all day long with your certain views.  Sure we can agree to disagree but when you use terms like yu do you just are not agreeing  to disagree but instead are choosing to name call folks who do not agree with your views.....shame on you.

Where did I namecall? It's funny how I meant something, and another person completely understands it the way they want to

When I turn on the TV, 24/7 they talk about death, misery, Covid and what not, and in my daily life I haven't seen anything of what they said.... In nearly 2 years(!) Then one might think they exaggerate a bit. 

And it's very easy to do such, because give people scary numbers, scary videos and what not, and people will fear. And people keep watching, hence the word fearporn. 

It's not a derogatory term. That certain people get offended by it, says more about those people. 

Funny thing is that those same people always love to express how stupid people are who don't agree with them. And they are often using quite offensive words. And they say it in ways they can't ever deny it was meant to hurt others. 

It's very normal to be interested in negative news. It's part of being human. But when others unnecessarily push fear towards the people, then that's fearporn yes. 

[Bob20]

39 minutes ago, DiJoDavO said:

Again such a word to make it more scary 'long covid'. 

Robert Malone, the guy who focused his work on mRNA vaccines, who is an immunologist and virologist says there's actually no such thing. 

It might take a bit longer for you to get back on track, but it's not what they want you to believe that the damage is permanent. 

If someone has that, it just means they have a crappy immune system. If my immune system is shit, whatever makes me sick, will last a long time. 

We are all saying the vaccines will help to prevent Covid, but little do they know that with a weak vaccine, we are only letting the virus escape each time, because it gets a chance to mutate or to get immune to the vaccine. Especially when giving such a vaccine during a pandemic. 

Nobody seems to be trying to prevent it, but only making it worse. 

Stay home (no sun, no exposure to germs) 

Keep using alcohol gel (no exposure to germs) 

Keep distance from each other. (a thing a child needs the most is love and connection) 

Don't go to the park or to the beach (where the sun is, which has been proven to be effective against the virus) 

Ridicule all medicines which work for a lot of people. (only vaccines are allowed, which can immunize the virus) 

But this is all just common sense, and you will always get attacked by numbers which whotf knows put out there. 

As said in another post, there are plenty of cases where the media has lied and even debunked their past stories. The media are not a good source of information nowadays. They can put whatever made up number out there and people say it's true. Just because it's in a news article. 

Thanks for mentioning Dr.Malone, because now we know where you stand. The good Dr. is an absolute nutcase, not respected by anyone in his field, listed mostly on conspiracy websites and quoted not by his peers, and not even by "pro-choicers" but by hardcore conspiracists.

Everyone knows that partial lockdowns don't work, if you didn't get my colindar "joke".

The choice is really very simple if you want to control the problem. You lockdown and vaccinate. 

Everything else leaves you with leaks to plug, people to look after in ICU and bury or cremate.

It's really that simple.