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News Forum - Will it, won’t it? October re-opening in doubt as Anutin defers to medical experts


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4 minutes ago, Stardust said:

Ok how many kids died from covid? Why should the majority sacrifice their existence and who will care for their families. I really guess you never had children because for parents or people have to feed families understand that but you are completly living in your bubble and able to look out of your box. What you write sounds like a selfish person and think himself is most important and others should sacriface their existence for it and the children too.

No, you just cherry pick from my posts to continue the argument.

So the parent goes to work and brings the virus home, like what happens all the time here.

The parent(s) end up in hospital or die.

Now what do the kids do?

I'm sure they'd rather have the parents home healthy!!

You just don't get it 

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4 hours ago, Thaiger said:

Thailand’s public health minister has responded to comments from top medics who have questioned the wisdom of re-opening the country next month. Anutin Charnvirakul says any re-opening will need the go-ahead from the Department of Disease Control, adding that nothing has been confirmed yet. “No one said the country will re-open on October 1

But we have seen this all before where they have listened to the experts ……

 

Stop buying Sinovac, medical expert tells government

https://thethaiger.com/coronavirus/cv19-vaccines/stop-buying-sinovac-medical-expert-tells-government

 

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6 minutes ago, AdvocatusDiaboli said:

But we have seen this all before where they have listened to the experts ……

Stop buying Sinovac, medical expert tells government

https://thethaiger.com/coronavirus/cv19-vaccines/stop-buying-sinovac-medical-expert-tells-government

Stop complaining, that was already in place before you appointed me! 🤬

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Well good luck to Thailand, who is acting like the only hot debutante at the ball. Thailands' shine has slowly been tarnishing for the last 2 decades. Starting when they began chaining closed nightclub doors and piss-testing people, or waiting at the exits to BTS to look for foreigners working. Then came the flaming hoops to jump through to stay long term in the country.

While many other countries have gone out of their way to produce digital-nomad type visas - Thailand carries on with their draconian laws. The price has increased what... 3x? The attitude and fun has decreased in a similar factor.

Many of us got used to traveling to Bangkok for medical tourism, seeing how they completely cut us off - well, have found greener pastures, or at least more localized.

People who get both doses of the vaccine still catch, get sick from, and spread the disease. The world should have let it run through the population just like 1919 and use their resources to protect those most at risk (a fraction). What exactly are you hunkering down in your hidey-hole waiting for? You really think after nearly two years the government is going to produce a magic bean that obliterates Covid19? We are no-where closer to a real vaccination, and probably a much sicker world for this mess.

In the end, who really cares what Thailand does. I'm sure not coming back if I have to quarantine to get in, only to find lockdowns, closed nightlife and limited access. More fun, sitting at home watching the world burn.

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55 minutes ago, Bob20 said:

No, you just cherry pick from my posts to continue the argument.

So the parent goes to work and brings the virus home, like what happens all the time here.

The parent(s) end up in hospital or die.

Now what do the kids do?

I'm sure they'd rather have the parents home healthy!!

You just don't get it 

Stay on the facts and check the mortality rates, ages and health conditions! You writing like everybody will die and for sure parents will not think their lifes are more important than their children if they are not selfish. But what you do is fear mongering and panic to say all their parents will die and also I really see no point why your life should be more important than the childrens life. How old are you to think this? And I guess you realy never had children because parents thinking mostly the opposite. And as I said stay on the facts and on ground of the reality, after 2 years covid we have datas!

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Just now, Stardust said:

Stay on the facts and check the mortality rates, ages and health conditions! You writing like everybody will die and for sure parents will not think their lifes are more important than their children if they are not selfish. But what you do is fear mongering and panic to say all their parents will die and also I really see no point why your life should be more important than the childrens life. How old are you to think this? And I guess you realy never had children because parents thinking mostly the opposite. And as I said stay on the facts and on ground of the reality, after 2 years covid we have datas!

You are wavering all over the place and make no sense.

Today is not much different from last year. The virus is out there and even now most people are still unprotected. 

Just because you are fed-up after 19 months makes no difference to the actual situation.

People will survive one or two more months with self-restraint. We already have 6000+ deaths each month.

That will skyrocket if everyone goes out and about their business spreading the virus even more!

There's nothing complicated about it.

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The case fatality is 0,42 percent for people under 60 in Thailand, according to August 19th WHO Thailand update report. That means if you get infected. That is about one in 240 and most of them have other illnesses already, 70-80 percent. No need for any lockdowns. This all has been an overreaction because government officials so like to control the populace with all kinds of permits and passports for any two bit excuse.

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Health minister Anutin has just graced us with another of his “pronouncements “.

How anyone can take any of this mans utterances with anything less than derision is beyond belief. He embodies (among others) everything that is wrong with this government.

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1 hour ago, Stardust said:

Ok how many kids died from covid?

It’s your argument, have you gone through the news articles to find out? 

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27 minutes ago, Stardust said:

But what you do is fear mongering and panic to say all their parents will die and also I really see no point why your life should be more important than the childrens life.

The story of the two Thai girls who woke up to find their 44 year old mother dead in their bedroom, possibly due to Covid-19, grabbed public attention and shed light on the death toll of the current wave of cases where more than 4,000 people infected with the virus have died. Medical examiners have not declared the Apaporn Suntarachon’s cause of death, but her daughters tested positive for Covid-19. The children are now under state care.

https://thethaiger.com/coronavirus/girls-infected-with-covid-after-mother-dies-at-home-public-criticises-healthcare-system

29 minutes ago, Stardust said:

And as I said stay on the facts

Which are? No links by you to the facts.  ….  We wait with bated breath.

 

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2 hours ago, Bob20 said:

No, you just cherry pick from my posts to continue the argument.

So the parent goes to work and brings the virus home, like what happens all the time here.

The parent(s) end up in hospital or die.

Now what do the kids do?

I'm sure they'd rather have the parents home healthy!!

You just don't get it 

 

2 hours ago, Stardust said:

Ok how many kids died from covid? Why should the majority sacrifice their existence and who will care for their families. I really guess you never had children because for parents or people have to feed families understand that but you are completly living in your bubble and able to look out of your box. What you write sounds like a selfish person and think himself is most important and others should sacriface their existence for it and the children too.

 

21 minutes ago, AdvocatusDiaboli said:

The story of the two Thai girls who woke up to find their 44 year old mother dead in their bedroom, possibly due to Covid-19, grabbed public attention and shed light on the death toll of the current wave of cases where more than 4,000 people infected with the virus have died. Medical examiners have not declared the Apaporn Suntarachon’s cause of death, but her daughters tested positive for Covid-19. The children are now under state care.

https://thethaiger.com/coronavirus/girls-infected-with-covid-after-mother-dies-at-home-public-criticises-healthcare-system

Which are? No links by you to the facts.  ….  We wait with bated breath.

Still think it's selfish to show self-restraint instead of taking risks? And are you pleased for the children @Stardust

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45 minutes ago, JackIsAGoodBoy said:

The case fatality is 0,42 percent for people under 60 in Thailand, according to August 19th WHO Thailand update report. That means if you get infected. That is about one in 240 and most of them have other illnesses already, 70-80 percent. No need for any lockdowns. This all has been an overreaction because government officials so like to control the populace with all kinds of permits and passports for any two bit excuse.

Am I to take it from your post, that lockdowns don't work? Perhaps you should take a look at the new UK infections here: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/uk/ You will see that each spike followed on from lockdown restrictions being eased. The earlier troughs were as a result of restrictions being increased. 

Allow a few days for the "lag effect" to kick in, and you can link the ups and downs to easing/toughening of restrictions.  Coincidence or consequence?

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1 hour ago, Americanbob said:

Well good luck to Thailand, who is acting like the only hot debutante at the ball. Thailands' shine has slowly been tarnishing for the last 2 decades. Starting when they began chaining closed nightclub doors and piss-testing people, or waiting at the exits to BTS to look for foreigners working. Then came the flaming hoops to jump through to stay long term in the country.

While many other countries have gone out of their way to produce digital-nomad type visas - Thailand carries on with their draconian laws. The price has increased what... 3x? The attitude and fun has decreased in a similar factor.

Many of us got used to traveling to Bangkok for medical tourism, seeing how they completely cut us off - well, have found greener pastures, or at least more localized.

People who get both doses of the vaccine still catch, get sick from, and spread the disease. The world should have let it run through the population just like 1919 and use their resources to protect those most at risk (a fraction). What exactly are you hunkering down in your hidey-hole waiting for? You really think after nearly two years the government is going to produce a magic bean that obliterates Covid19? We are no-where closer to a real vaccination, and probably a much sicker world for this mess.

In the end, who really cares what Thailand does. I'm sure not coming back if I have to quarantine to get in, only to find lockdowns, closed nightlife and limited access. More fun, sitting at home watching the world burn.

I care.

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I’ve said it before but I’ll say it again! 
 

Thailand was basking in glory back in  early 2020 when it closed the country and locked down (Thai style). They arrogantly looked down their noses as though they were the enlightened ones. The problem was that closing was always the easy part. The part that anyone could do as it’s easy to do nothing. Close things and tell people to stay out of the country and stay at home. It was always going to happen where this virus “got out”. At that point it needed quality leadership and truly independent scientific advice. It needed people who put the country and the people of the country first. It needed people who had the foresight to use the period of low infection to plan and prepare for when the inevitable  happened.  Unfortunately these quality are exactly the opposite of what Thailand has running things. And so now, the usual chaos, incompetence and face saving attitudes are resulting in mayhem. 
 

For those of us who know Thailand reasonably well. Are we really surprised it’s come to this? I’m not. My only surprise is that it’s taken so long. 

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1 hour ago, Soidog said:

I’ve said it before but I’ll say it again! 
 

Thailand was basking in glory back in  early 2020 when it closed the country and locked down (Thai style). They arrogantly looked down their noses as though they were the enlightened ones. The problem was that closing was always the easy part. The part that anyone could do as it’s easy to do nothing. Close things and tell people to stay out of the country and stay at home. It was always going to happen where this virus “got out”. At that point it needed quality leadership and truly independent scientific advice. It needed people who put the country and the people of the country first. It needed people who had the foresight to use the period of low infection to plan and prepare for when the inevitable  happened.  Unfortunately these quality are exactly the opposite of what Thailand has running things. And so now, the usual chaos, incompetence and face saving attitudes are resulting in mayhem. 
 

For those of us who know Thailand reasonably well. Are we really surprised it’s come to this? I’m not. My only surprise is that it’s taken so long. 

I completely agree with you. While people were dropping like flies in other countries, we were outside in the sun and didn't notice much except for the quieter surroundings. 80 dead in the 14 months until Songkran...

But Delta was the game changer after having been lucky.

Now 15.000 dead in 5 months...

What I don't understand though, is how they throw out plan after plan, that then is abandoned or even denied it ever existed. Face-saving or not, they are going to need good relations with other countries and the shambles that is reported in the world-press does the leaders and Thailand no good.

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5 hours ago, AdvocatusDiaboli said:

The story of the two Thai girls who woke up to find their 44 year old mother dead in their bedroom, possibly due to Covid-19, grabbed public attention and shed light on the death toll of the current wave of cases where more than 4,000 people infected with the virus have died. Medical examiners have not declared the Apaporn Suntarachon’s cause of death, but her daughters tested positive for Covid-19. The children are now under state care.

https://thethaiger.com/coronavirus/girls-infected-with-covid-after-mother-dies-at-home-public-criticises-healthcare-system

Which are? No links by you to the facts.  ….  We wait with bated breath.

Stay on the facts and the mortality rate, you wanna tell the people all the parents will and pick one case with a woman with had bad health conditions. What you bring are not facts and away on the ground of facts and it is not serious! Check the datas and mortality rates and the groups. And give me one reason why the children shall suffer or be less important than your safety or families should loose their existence. Why you not lock up yourself? It is a kind of selfish to want that the poor families loise everything and suffer including their because of people like you. I know how privileged we are compare but I would never want their lifes get destroyed because of me. But selfish people would do I see and they think their lifes are more important than from tge children and such a point there is no need for a discussion anymore it is for selfish narcistic people who have no empathy for the poor Thaifamilies and children. 

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9 minutes ago, Bob20 said:

I completely agree with you. While people were dropping like flies in other countries, we were outside in the sun and didn't notice much except for the quieter surroundings. 80 dead in the 14 months until Songkran...

But Delta was the game changer after having been lucky.

Now 15.000 dead in 5 months...

What I don't understand though, is how they throw out plan after plan, that then is abandoned or even denied it ever existed. Face-saving or not, they are going to need good relations with other countries and the shambles that is reported in the world-press does the leaders and Thailand no good.

I’m prepared to give some of them the benefit of the doubt and say they may come out with these statements in an attempt to force the hand of the policy makers. If I’m a senior member of TAT (god forbid and strike me down!) and I put a comment out that people react positively to, then maybe that places a certain amount of pressure on policy makers? Maybe I’m being too generous by thinking this. Perhaps they are just utterly clueless. 😂

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5 hours ago, Bob20 said:

Still think it's selfish to show self-restraint instead of taking risks? And are you pleased for the children @Stardust

The user jackisagoodboy just wrote the facts of mortality rate. And sure i have children and i guess you never had because parents understand their situation. Yes you are selfish and think your life is more important and expect others should sacrifice their existence and their childrens for you and yours is more important. As a parent I would never expect or want that or think my life is more important then from the children.

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1 minute ago, Stardust said:

The user jackisagoodboy just wrote the facts of mortality rate. And sure i have children and i guess you never had because parents understand their situation. Yes you are selfish and think your life is more important and expect others should sacrifice their existence and their childrens for you and yours is more important. As a parent I would never expect or want that or think my life is more important then from the children.

jackisagoodboy was already blocked and you just qualified too 🎉 🎉 🎉 

You make no sense or can't read. If you think that taking risks, dying and leaving your kids in care is better than to restrict yourself a little longer to be safe, then you are free to do that.

Bye

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6 minutes ago, Soidog said:

I’m prepared to give some of them the benefit of the doubt and say they may come out with these statements in an attempt to force the hand of the policy makers. If I’m a senior member of TAT (god forbid and strike me down!) and I put a comment out that people react positively to, then maybe that places a certain amount of pressure on policy makers? Maybe I’m being too generous by thinking this. Perhaps they are just utterly clueless. 😂

Oh, I wasn't even talking about TAT! I'm not writing books here 🤣

I just mentioned what came out of Government!

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1 minute ago, Bob20 said:

Oh, I wasn't even talking about TAT! I'm not writing books here 🤣

Obviously not a percentage call then!

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5 hours ago, JohninDubin said:

Am I to take it from your post, that lockdowns don't work? Perhaps you should take a look at the new UK infections here: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/uk/ You will see that each spike followed on from lockdown restrictions being eased. The earlier troughs were as a result of restrictions being increased. 

Allow a few days for the "lag effect" to kick in, and you can link the ups and downs to easing/toughening of restrictions.  Coincidence or consequence?

But you forget that the social net in europe is not the same like in Thailand. If peoples business is shut down their is no compensation for it and if they family they cannot be locked for such a long time like in Thailand. And there are many who worked on a minimum salary of 300 baht a day they have no savings for a lockdown when they lost their work because of the lockdown. Thailands social situation is not the same like in europe.

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12 minutes ago, Bob20 said:

jackisagoodboy was already blocked and you just qualified too 🎉 🎉 🎉 

You make no sense or can't read. If you think that taking risks, dying and leaving your kids in care is better than to restrict yourself a little longer to be safe, then you are free to do that.

Bye

I see you never had children thats why you have no empathy with this familues and their suffering. And you cannot read I am not talking about my privileged situation but I have empathy and understand their situation and i an not selfish and a narcist to expect they will stop to work and feed their families because of me but you do that! You think you are more impirtant than suffering children and want they do that. Learn reading because what you answer has nothing to do about what I was writing really nothing.

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43 minutes ago, Stardust said:

But you forget that the social net in europe is not the same like in Thailand. If peoples business is shut down their is no compensation for it and if they family they cannot be locked for such a long time like in Thailand. And there are many who worked on a minimum salary of 300 baht a day they have no savings for a lockdown when they lost their work because of the lockdown. Thailands social situation is not the same like in europe.

I don't see the relevance of your post. I was questioning your apparent assertion that lockdowns don't work. Like all choices, they have consequences. That being the case, the question is do we want to save lives or do we want to save businesses?

I have great sympathy for those whose businesses have suffered, but I also have to ask the question, how many of those who have suffered such losses may have died or seen family, friends or employees die had there been no lockdowns or restrictions? They may or not recover from this financially, but you don't recover from death.

Edited by JohninDubin
Missing punctuation (?)
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13 minutes ago, JohninDubin said:

Edited 5 minutes ago by JohninDubin 
Missing punctuation (?)

"Missing punctuation" is better than "missing the point" like your discussion partner...

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