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9 minutes ago, Stonker said:

Well, that's your view and you're fully entitled to it but that isn't the view of the NHS as their website, which I've linked to, very clearly states.  Having a UK passport has no relevance at all - it's simply down to if you're "ordinarily resident", regardless of nationality.

The NHS could of course be wrong about their own rules and you could be right, but on balance I think I'll go along with what they say.

You are right of course but a friend had not gone back for 18 years and of course when he lived there he was registered with his doctor. He went back because his  wife had died here , had no other relatives here so went back to be near his daughter. Whilst there he became ill one night got taken to hospital fortunately to be diagnosed with nothing too serious . He was asked who his doctor was so just told them who he was registered with when he previously lived there. Went to the same old surgery after one week for checkup and all ok. So sorry about the long post but it does seem that if you go back to the same area and hence the same doctor as before you are still registered in the NHS records

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12 minutes ago, Stonker said:

Well, that's your view and you're fully entitled to it but that isn't the view of the NHS as their website, which I've linked to, very clearly states.  Having a UK passport has no relevance at all - it's simply down to if you're "ordinarily resident", regardless of nationality.

The NHS could of course be wrong about their own rules and you could be right, but on balance I think I'll go along with what they say.

Edit:

This is the opening paragraph from that link, which could hardly be clearer:

"Within England, free NHS hospital treatment is provided on the basis of someone being ‘ordinarily resident’. Being ordinarily resident is not dependent upon nationality, payment of UK taxes, National Insurance contributions, being registered with a GP, having an NHS number or owning property in the UK."

.

JUST  HOW  MUCH  CLEARER  DOES  IT  HAVE  TO  BE?

Yes, being "ordinary resident" and you need to show a recent utility bill with your name and address on it as proof of being an "ordinary resident" , to show that you live in the U.K.

   The utility bill shows that you are a permeant resident , but you will need to show proof that you are the person named on the utility bill and showing them your passport is proof you are the person named on the bill .

   So, you will need a utility bill and a passport to confirm identity and residence  

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14 minutes ago, gummy said:

You are right of course but a friend had not gone back for 18 years and of course when he lived there he was registered with his doctor. He went back because his  wife had died here , had no other relatives here so went back to be near his daughter. Whilst there he became ill one night got taken to hospital fortunately to be diagnosed with nothing too serious . He was asked who his doctor was so just told them who he was registered with when he previously lived there. Went to the same old surgery after one week for checkup and all ok. So sorry about the long post but it does seem that if you go back to the same area and hence the same doctor as before you are still registered in the NHS records

You may have missed my edit:

"This is the opening paragraph from that link, which could hardly be clearer:

"Within England, free NHS hospital treatment is provided on the basis of someone being ‘ordinarily resident’. Being ordinarily resident is not dependent upon nationality, payment of UK taxes, National Insurance contributions, being registered with a GP, having an NHS number or owning property in the UK."

JUST  HOW  MUCH  CLEARER  CAN IT BE?"

 

Based on what you say of your friend he was clearly "ordinarily resident" and it was nothing to do with it being the same area, same doctor, or still registered with the NHS.

Despite the now rather tedious claims to the contrary here, the rules are VERY clear. 😃

 

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2 minutes ago, Stonker said:

You may have missed my edit:

"This is the opening paragraph from that link, which could hardly be clearer:

"Within England, free NHS hospital treatment is provided on the basis of someone being ‘ordinarily resident’. Being ordinarily resident is not dependent upon nationality, payment of UK taxes, National Insurance contributions, being registered with a GP, having an NHS number or owning property in the UK."

JUST  HOW  MUCH  CLEARER  CAN IT BE?"

Based on what you say of your friend he was clearly "ordinarily resident" and it was nothing to do with it being the same area, same doctor, or still registered with the NHS.

Despite the now rather tedious claims to the contrary here, the rules are VERY clear. 😃

So even after being away 18 years he was classed as being "ordinarily resident" then. Didn't know that and I'm sure many others will be pleased to hear that is the case should they wish to go back for treatment.

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36 minutes ago, gummy said:

So even after being away 18 years he was classed as being "ordinarily resident" then. Didn't know that and I'm sure many others will be pleased to hear that is the case should they wish to go back for treatment.

If he kept his registration with his G.P. , he would have remained registered for the prior 18 years and they wouldn't have noticed he'd been abroad . 

   You are dealing with a person who works as a receptionist at the G.P.s and they are there primarily to give you treatment for your ailments , rather than being immigration officers

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5 minutes ago, gummy said:

So even after being away 18 years he was classed as being "ordinarily resident" then. Didn't know that and I'm sure many others will be pleased to hear that is the case should they wish to go back for treatment.

Yes and no.

You can be "ordinarily resident" on your first day back regardless of how long you've been out of the UK, or even if it's your first day ever in the UK, but NOT if your reason for being in the UK is a "wish to go back for treatment" - that's very specifically excluded.

This has been widely misunderstood by NHS hospitals in the past with some charging 'Windrush' patients when they shouldn't have and not charging expat Brits when they should, but with Brexit and NHS funding it's now been spelt out very clearly and at length - 12 pages just on what "ordinarily resident" means in just one of the many references in the additional link below.

The idea that showing a passport and utility bill is all that's required as "proof" that you're ordinarily resident is, quite simply and bluntly, absolute bollox as the NHS and Gov UK links make very clear.

It may be enough for some but not for others, and as the NHS have been losing between half a billion and three billion pounds a year because of it the application of the rules is now, understandably, being tightened up.

For some that'll mean it's easier to show that they're "ordinarily resident", but for others it'll be a lot harder and a utility bill and passport won't cut it.

There are a number of ways to show that you're "ordinarily resident", and the NHS are entitled to ask for a variety of documentation, as the links show, but the main proviso is that whether you've been back for a day, a week, a month or a year you must NOT have gone back to the UK "for treatment".

Mention that and however many utility bills, passports or tax returns you wave to justify it and you're screwed.

Totally screwed.

FWIW, I haven't just looked this up to prove a point here, but as I haven't lived in the UK for over thirty years and I haven't been back for over twenty but I'm still paying UK tax it's something I keep abreast of -  although fortunately if necessary I can use Sister Aggie's where there's no such requirement and the waiting list's rather shorter.

https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/nhs-visitor-and-migrant-cost-recovery-programme

 

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2 hours ago, Fluke said:

Yes, being "ordinary resident" and you need to show a recent utility bill with your name and address on it as proof of being an "ordinary resident" , to show that you live in the U.K.

   The utility bill shows that you are a permeant resident , but you will need to show proof that you are the person named on the utility bill and showing them your passport is proof you are the person named on the bill .

   So, you will need a utility bill and a passport to confirm identity and residence  

 

1 hour ago, Fluke said:

If he kept his registration with his G.P. , he would have remained registered for the prior 18 years and they wouldn't have noticed he'd been abroad . 

   You are dealing with a person who works as a receptionist at the G.P.s and they are there primarily to give you treatment for your ailments , rather than being immigration officers

See above.

Sorry, but to be blunt you're just talking absolute and increasing bollox and while you're entitled to your opinion what you're saying could cost anyone who believes you rather than the NHS and Gov UK sites I've linked to not just a great deal of money but potentially their lives.

"Ordinarily resident" is not "permanent resident" - the two are totally different.

You can be ordinarily resident without a passport and without a utility bill - many who qualify as ordinarily resident in the UK may not have one or the other, and some may well have neither.

GPs and GPs' receptionists have nothing, absolutely nothing, to do with approving an entitlement to NHS treatment.

NHS "receptionists", on the other hand, can and do approve and disapprove entitlement and are required to act as de facto "immigration officers", and if they get it wrong then their NHS Trust foots the bill.

Please, give it a rest as what you're saying is not just wrong as should be painfully obvious from the direct quote I gave from the NHS but it's potentially very dangerous.

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6 minutes ago, Stonker said:

See above.

Sorry, but to be blunt you're just talking absolute and increasing bollox and while you're entitled to your opinion what you're saying could cost anyone who believes you rather than the NHS and Gov UK sites I've linked to not just a great deal of money but potentially their lives.

"Ordinarily resident" is not "permanent resident" - the two are totally different.

You can be ordinarily resident without a passport and without a utility bill - many who qualify as ordinarily resident in the UK may not have one or the other, and some may well have neither.

GPs and GPs' receptionists have nothing, absolutely nothing, to do with approving an entitlement to NHS treatment.

Please, give it a rest as what you're saying is not just wrong as should be painfully obvious from the direct quote I gave from the NHS but it's potentially very dangerous.

Speaking as someone who recently  went back to the U.K after tens years of being in Thailand and registered with a G.P in the U.K and also went to a hospital for treatment , I do have recent  first hand experience .

  They gave me a list of documents that I could  provide to prove eligibility and I choose a utility bill and my passport to prove eligibility , although there were other options on the list , like a driving license and other things that I dont recall now . 

   The receptionist at the G.P. checks all your documents , she saw my passport and didnt make an issue of how long I had been in/out the U.K for .

   The G.Ps receptionist signed the documents stating I had provided adequate proof of eligibility

  I am just  stating my experience 

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58 minutes ago, Fluke said:

I am just  stating my experience 

... and I'm just stating what the NHS and Gov UK say, very clearly and at length.

Anyone reading this, if they can be bothered to anymore, is obviously at liberty to choose which is correct rather than what one person may have been allowed to get away with suggesting it as the norm.

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Can we split off the last 2/3 of this thread and title it "Contentious Debate about NHS benefits"?

The last post I remember that was germane to the topic was from Yinn, who pointed out that only Thai nationals qualify for this poor policy.

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4 minutes ago, Stonker said:

... and I'm just stating what the NHS and Gov UK say, very clearly and at length.

Anyone reading this, if they can be bothered to anymore, is obviously at liberty to choose which is correct rather than what one person may have been allowed to get away with suggesting it as the norm.

Could you state what you feel  is required by U.K citizens to receive NHS treatment ?

No links, just write it in your  own words 

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23 minutes ago, Fluke said:

Could you state what you feel  is required by U.K citizens to receive NHS treatment ?

No links, just write it in your  own words 

No, that would be to interpret and re-write the links which is not just unnecessary but absurd, and it isn't a question of "what I feel" but what the NHS and Gov UK legislate.  It's about fact, not opinion.

After God knows how many times, you somehow still don't appear to get it  - it doesn't matter if you're a "UK citizen" or not.  If my Thai partner and I went to the UK tomorrow we'd either both be entitled to free NHS treatment as ordinarily resident or, if we weren't, we wouldn't.

It could hardly be simpler.

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11 minutes ago, Stonker said:

No, that would be to interpret and re-write the links which is not just unnecessary but absurd, and it isn't a question of "what I feel" but what the NHS and Gov UK legislate.  It's about fact, not opinion.

After God knows how many times, you somehow still don't appear to get it  - it doesn't matter if you're a "UK citizen" or not.  If my Thai partner and I went to the UK tomorrow we'd either both be entitled to free NHS treatment as ordinarily resident or, if we weren't, we wouldn't.

It could hardly be simpler.

Is that steam I see coming from your nose? 😤

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3 minutes ago, Stonker said:

No, that would be to interpret and re-write the links which is not just unnecessary but absurd, and it isn't a question of "what I feel" but what the NHS and Gov UK legislate.  It's about fact, not opinion.

After God knows how many times, you somehow still don't appear to get it  - it doesn't matter if you're a "UK citizen" or not.  If my Thai partner and I went to the UK tomorrow we'd either both be entitled to free NHS treatment as ordinarily resident or, if we weren't, we wouldn't.

It could hardly be simpler.

You could read the links and then re write the info in your own words ?

Its difficult to understand full statements , when only one paragraph is picked out and posted , because it doesn't contain all the information .

   UK citizens are entitled to free NHS health care , whilst Thai citizens are not .

(Although there are instances when Thais can be come eligible for NHS care .)

So, it does indeed matter whether you are a U.K citizen or not 

(although some non U.K citizens are indeed eligible for NHS healthcare )

Are you aware of any instances when U,K citizens have been refused NHS healthcare?

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36 minutes ago, Fluke said:

You could read the links and then re write the info in your own words ?

Its difficult to understand full statements , when only one paragraph is picked out and posted , because it doesn't contain all the information .

I could, but the links are clear and simple so I can't see the point.

39 minutes ago, Fluke said:

UK citizens are entitled to free NHS health care , whilst Thai citizens are not .

(Although there are instances when Thais can be come eligible for NHS care .)

So, it does indeed matter whether you are a U.K citizen or not 

(although some non U.K citizens are indeed eligible for NHS healthcare )

Are you aware of any instances when U,K citizens have been refused NHS healthcare?

Sorry, but there are limits to my patience and I think you've now got to the point where you're just posting things that are clearly and deliberately wrong just to get a reaction regardless of how badly it could affect others - or, more correctly, you've gone way past that point.

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8 minutes ago, Stonker said:

I could, but the links are clear and simple so I can't see the point.

Sorry, but there are limits to my patience and I think you've now got to the point where you're just posting things that are clearly and deliberately wrong just to get a reaction regardless of how badly it could affect others - or, more correctly, you've gone way past that point.

Everything that I have posted has been correct .

OK, tell me one thing that I have posted that has been "wrong" .

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On 9/9/2021 at 12:17 PM, Griff1315 said:

A flight home is a damn site cheaper.

Exactly. Friend of mine who was 68 paid £78,000 (3.4M baht) in a Bangkok hospital to have a tumour removed. It was a success and gave him 4 more years before it came back and killed him. Luckily his insurance did cover him for the costs at the time. 

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3 hours ago, Fluke said:

Speaking as someone who recently  went back to the U.K after tens years of being in Thailand and registered with a G.P in the U.K and also went to a hospital for treatment , I do have recent  first hand experience .

  They gave me a list of documents that I could  provide to prove eligibility and I choose a utility bill and my passport to prove eligibility , although there were other options on the list , like a driving license and other things that I dont recall now . 

   The receptionist at the G.P. checks all your documents , she saw my passport and didnt make an issue of how long I had been in/out the U.K for .

   The G.Ps receptionist signed the documents stating I had provided adequate proof of eligibility

  I am just  stating my experience 

I have to say my knowledge of this is the same. It’s also true that the NHS have very clear guidelines and “rules” on who can receive free treatment. In practice it is regularly overlooked. I have a mate who works in a major NHS hospital and he tells these tails regularly while fuming at the tax he pays. It’s true that if you return to the U.K. and try to register with a GP you will be asked various questions. However, depending on your illness, and if it’s life threatening, then do as my mate tells me happens and simply pretend to faint in a supermarket and get them to call an ambulance. (Make sure it’s away from the cold food fridges as it can be chilly laying on the floor around there!) Hey presto, you are in the loop and will be treated. Regular ones apparently are pace maker replacements, stents and pregnant women who said they were 5 months pregnant to get on the flight but were actually 8-9 months. Is it any wonder the U.K. spends £120,000,000,000 a year on its NHS and apparently it’s still not enough 😂

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9 minutes ago, Soidog said:

I have to say my knowledge of this is the same. It’s also true that the NHS have very clear guidelines and “rules” on who can receive free treatment. In practice it is regularly overlooked. I have a mate who works in a major NHS hospital and he tells these tails regularly while fuming at the tax he pays. It’s true that if you return to the U.K. and try to register with a GP you will be asked various questions. However, depending on your illness, and if it’s life threatening, then do as my mate tells me happens and simply pretend to faint in a supermarket and get them to call an ambulance. (Make sure it’s away from the cold food fridges as it can be chilly laying on the floor around there!) Hey presto, you are in the loop and will be treated. Regular ones apparently are pace maker replacements, stents and pregnant women who said they were 5 months pregnant to get on the flight but were actually 8-9 months. Is it any wonder the U.K. spends £120,000,000,000 a year on its NHS and apparently it’s still not enough 😂

Maybe some peoples experiences are different to mine .

I had already been back in the U.K for a month or two and just registered with the G.P. for a quick check up and I had hasd a continuous home address and place of residence in the U.K , for all they knew I could have been living at my mums house for the last ten years , no one asked me and so I didn't mention that I had been abroad for the previous ten years .

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11 minutes ago, Fluke said:

Maybe some peoples experiences are different to mine .

I had already been back in the U.K for a month or two and just registered with the G.P. for a quick check up and I had hasd a continuous home address and place of residence in the U.K , for all they knew I could have been living at my mums house for the last ten years , no one asked me and so I didn't mention that I had been abroad for the previous ten years .

I totally agree. I know many people do the same. No one at your local GP is going to ask to see your passport. They won’t even ask someone with a thick Dublin accent for proof of nationality for fear they could be from Belfast and won’t ask even ask someone who doesn’t speak English for fear of being accused of racism.
 

The NHS and government have loads of rules and procedures that are ignored. It’s also true that it varies from one place to the next. The U.K. doesn’t really have a “National” health service. It’s all done slightly differently in different places. 
 

As an aside. Keeping a method of showing you are still “resident” in the U.K. is vital if you want your state pension increases each year. Again, I know many who simply claim to reside with a family member and yet spend years out of the country. These rules all look good on paper and keep the masses thinking the government is spending their money wisely. All a load of Tosh! 

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I live in the UK with no plans to live in Thailand full time. But have a friend who lives in Jomtien and sold up here. He had foresight to use his sister (to whom he is very close) to be his dead mailbox for letters etc. He also registered using her address as GP when he was preparing to leave and gets his UK banks statements sent there as well. If he was in any dire straits he would fly back home and be able to access acute care if required from the off. That said the covid ravaged NHS is going to be pretty iffy moving forward.

This happened of course to poor old Kev-In-Thailand who eventually went back to UK to die.

His last ever video.

 

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