Jump to content

Biden stands by decision to withdraw troops, says no leaving without ‘chaos ensuing’


Thaiger
 Share

Recommended Posts

4 minutes ago, Stonker said:

Informative and very much on point, thank you - that's why I said the process should have started two years ago, not at the last minute or six months ago.

The problem isn't airport security or the number of aircraft - that has never been, nor has it ever been likely to be the problem.

The problem has always been, and has always been going to be, access to the airport not just from Kabul but from across Afghanistan.

So far the Taliban don't seem to have co-ordinated limiting or allowing access so it's a matter of luck - or bad luck.

This has always been going to be the case, as has been obvious for a decade and unavoidably obvious since 2014 and at least the last two years, which is why trying to pin the failure to do anything to avert it down to Republicans or Democrats is so stupid, petty and puerile.

It isn't a Republican or a Democrat failure, as both parties failed to do anything.  It's an American failure, just as Vietnam and Iraq were, but that doesn't absolve anyone else, particularly the UK, from equal responsibility and blame.

Nailed it.  Afghanistan was only convient when an American politican on either side needed it to be for a “15 second sound bite”. I am not up on UK politics unless one of my Brit mates tells me something that upset him, but reading from your comment it is similar.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The US has had terrible foreign policy since the Korean War.  This withdrawal was ugly, but nonetheless i’m glad we’re finally getting the hell out of there.  Now the US public needs to oppose the next bullshit war that they try to get us into.  No war for Taiwan, Korea, Saudi Arabia, Ukraine, Poland,  Venezuela, Israel or anywhere else!

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

23 hours ago, 23RD said:

Excellent post Fester mate the logical sequence would have been to keep hold of Bagram until the evacuation of all relevant civilians had taken place they could have been moved by HELO from Kabul to Bagram and then to a 3rd Country by Military aircraft.

It would have also served as a pick up point for Coalition troops exiting out of theatre during an organized exfiltration.

I blame the 2 Obama shills Generals Austin and Miley for this disaster they were to busy talking about White rage and CRT and lacked moral courage to do the right thing.

And talking about Bagram Airbase I bet Pakistani ISI and other nefarious actors are doing a forensic deep dive on the place as we talk.

That would have involved holding two airports (Bagram and Kabul) 50 kms  apart (70 by road) so doubling not only the number of troops required for security and force protection but also the logistic  support -

- while doing exactly the same processing in Kabul that's being done now, then transferring them to Bagram to be flown out from there, instead of from Kabul where there's plenty of spare capacity not only on the military flights but also on civilian flights if necessary.

 

Totally pointless, unnecessary and unjustifiable, and doubling the number of troops required and the risk of something going wrong.

 

I'm tempted to say unbelievable, but sadly it's not.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, Farang-Ba said:

The US has had terrible foreign policy since the Korean War.  This withdrawal was ugly, but nonetheless i’m glad we’re finally getting the hell out of there.  Now the US public needs to oppose the next bullshit war that they try to get us into.  No war for Taiwan, Korea, Saudi Arabia, Ukraine, Poland,  Venezuela, Israel or anywhere else!

Totally agree with you on that post Farang-Ba buddy and the saddest aspect to these foreign wars is its not the pink haired gender bending self loathing  SJW's of The Democrat Party that go to far away hellholes to fight and die in these foreign wars its the Nations finest young men and women from more Patriotic and conservative backgrounds.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

21 minutes ago, Dancbmac said:

Nailed it.  Afghanistan was only convient when an American politican on either side needed it to be for a “15 second sound bite”. I am not up on UK politics unless one of my Brit mates tells me something that upset him, but reading from your comment it is similar.

Thank you - it's not hard to see the obvious.

 

Sadly, UK politics isn't dissimilar even if it's not so extreme and there's more overlap.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, 23RD said:

Totally agree with you on that post Farang-Ba buddy and the saddest aspect to these foreign wars is its not the pink haired gender bending self loathing  SJW's of The Democrat Party that go to far away hellholes to fight and die in these foreign wars its the Nations finest young men and women from more Patriotic and conservative backgrounds.

You don't know much about American history and conscription, do you?

FWIW, both this president and his predecessor (so one of each, Democrat and Republican) used their connections to defer and avoid conscription and fighting for their country.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 8/22/2021 at 5:11 AM, PBS said:

trump spent 285 days visiting golf venues which cost the US tax payer approx $115,000,000, plus numerous visits to his place in Florida, also costing the tax payer many millions of dollars. trump abused use of tax payers funds for an extraordinary number of days on self indulgent activities.

trump used the power of his Office to abuse and insult members of the public who disagreed with him. In summary whatever goodness trump managed to achieve, his overall behaviour and actions utterly drowned them.

What does this have to do with the topic ?

Attempted deflection from the issue of Biden making a mess of things ?

  • Like 2
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, Fluke said:

What does this have to do with the topic ?

Attempted deflection from the issue of Biden making a mess of things ?

Its more like GW Bush went charging in when America should have sat still. Where's that b*stard when you want to hold somebody culpable? Lying hound. I said it at the time and I still say it. Blair too, contemptible.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Stonker said:

That would have involved holding two airports (Bagram and Kabul) 50 kms  apart (70 by road) so doubling not only the number of troops required for security and force protection but also the logistic  support -

- while doing exactly the same processing in Kabul that's being done now, then transferring them to Bagram to be flown out from there, instead of from Kabul where there's plenty of spare capacity not only on the military flights but also on civilian flights if necessary.

Totally pointless, unnecessary and unjustifiable, and doubling the number of troops required and the risk of something going wrong.

I'm tempted to say unbelievable, but sadly it's not.

Thank you for your input Walter but just to educate you slightly holding on to Bagram Airbase would been an ideal location to forward base fixed wing and HELO ARF assets  with a short flight time to Kabul Airport to cover the withdrawal of CIVPOP from Kabul and also a natural location to exfiltrate Coalition Forces after the CIVPOP evacuation is complete.

Due to Joe Biden's ignorance and lack of understanding on Military matters (a man with even less military experience than yourself) .

Coalition Forces are now fixed inside a small perimeter with 100's of civilian staff and NGO's and many 1000's of Afghan civilians  which at any moment could turn into a FIBUA/OBUA Operation due to the highly volatile situation on the ground at Kabul International Airport.

People are comparing this to Saigon (its more like Stalingrad).

And I'd again like to say God Bless The Coalition Troops on the ground in Kabul at this time some of them still teenagers pulling it out of the bag everyday clearing up the mess created by the not fit for purpose Biden Administration.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, Poolie said:

Its more like GW Bush went charging in when America should have sat still. Where's that b*stard when you want to hold somebody culpable? Lying hound. I said it at the time and I still say it. Blair too, contemptible.

Maybe the aim at the time was to destabilase the whole region ?

Before there was powerful countries and leaders like Iraq , Syria , Libya and a few others , now its weaker factions all fighting each other . 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, Fluke said:

Maybe the aim at the time was to destabilase the whole region ?

Before there was powerful countries and leaders like Iraq , Syria , Libya and a few others , now its weaker factions all fighting each other . 

And now we could shortly be seeing a Hezbollah/Taliban/Iran alliance with Pakistan support. Then the sparks will fly with Israel

Link to comment
Share on other sites

29 minutes ago, Stonker said:

You don't know much about American history and conscription, do you?

FWIW, both this president and his predecessor (so one of each, Democrat and Republican) used their connections to defer and avoid conscription and fighting for their country.

Correct me if I'm wrong any US Veterans but I'm sure the last conscription/draft for The US Military was during the Vietnam war.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, gummy said:

And now we could shortly be seeing a Hezbollah/Taliban/Iran alliance with Pakistan support. Then the sparks will fly with Israel

Saudi Arabia and the USA and other Middle Eastern Countries would side with Israel in the event of a full scale M.E war

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 minutes ago, Fluke said:

Saudi Arabia and the USA and other Middle Eastern Countries would side with Israel in the event of a full scale M.E war

Oh my, that's the old thinking. With the failure of the US in Iraq and Afghanistan there will be no issues for Russia, already supporting Syria, and China now about to work with Afghanistan and consequently by default Iran to totally dominate . The world has changed and all of us better understand that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Stonker said:

Informative and very much on point, thank you - that's why I said the process should have started two years ago, not at the last minute or six months ago.

The problem isn't airport security or the number of aircraft - that has never been, nor has it ever been likely to be the problem.

The problem has always been, and has always been going to be, access to the airport not just from Kabul but from across Afghanistan.

So far the Taliban don't seem to have co-ordinated limiting or allowing access so it's a matter of luck - or bad luck.

This has always been going to be the case, as has been obvious for a decade and unavoidably obvious since 2014 and at least the last two years, which is why trying to pin the failure to do anything to avert it down to Republicans or Democrats is so stupid, petty and puerile.

It isn't a Republican or a Democrat failure, as both parties failed to do anything.  It's an American failure, just as Vietnam and Iraq were, but that doesn't absolve anyone else, particularly the UK, from equal responsibility and blame.

You have been watching the news reports !The whole world has condemned biden  for his  lack of decision making when  pulling   protection forces out, leaving billions of dollars worth of military equipment  behind instead of destroying them,  shameful exercise  of pulling  Americans citizens out  and leaving the airbases intact after evacuating . Biden has destroyed  all his  credibility with his word salad excuses !

It was said of biden in 2020  that "he has the ability to blank things up" 

When the curtain came up for the show the ability became a reality, again!

Edited by riclag
Link to comment
Share on other sites

29 minutes ago, 23RD said:

Thank you for your input Walter but just to educate you slightly holding on to Bagram Airbase would been an ideal location to forward base fixed wing and HELO ARF assets  with a short flight time to Kabul Airport to cover the withdrawal of CIVPOP from Kabul and also a natural location to exfiltrate Coalition Forces after the CIVPOP evacuation is complete.

Due to Joe Biden's ignorance and lack of understanding on Military matters (a man with even less military experience than yourself) .

Coalition Forces are now fixed inside a small perimeter with 100's of civilian staff and NGO's and many 1000's of Afghan civilians  which at any moment could turn into a FIBUA/OBUA Operation due to the highly volatile situation on the ground at Kabul International Airport.

People are comparing this to Saigon (its more like Stalingrad).

And I'd again like to say God Bless The Coalition Troops on the ground in Kabul at this time some of them still teenagers pulling it out of the bag everyday clearing up the mess created by the not fit for purpose Biden Administration.

Just about as uninformed as it gets here, and that's including all those who aren't making any claims to have any military experience or personal knowledge of Afghanistan.

 

Yes, Bagram is an ideal forward base for aircraft as that's what it was, and it would indeed have been an ideal base for fast jets / hels to cover a withdrawal if needed - but they're very clearly not needed.

 

It's use in addition to Kabul airport, though, which is what you suggested, is beyond stupid.

 

You'd be securing and holding two airfields 50 kms apart instead of one, doing your screening and processing in Kabul where there are better facilities for civilian aircraft as well as military, then moving them completely unnecessarily by helicopter to Bagram.

 

Alternatively you'd be picking civilians up from rooftops and football pitches in Kabul by helicopter, unscreened and unchecked, somehow avoiding the crowds being sliced up by the rotors (which I'd have expected anyone familiar with helicopters to realise), then flying 30,000 (so far) by helicopter from Kabul to Bagram to be flown on.

 

It's way, way beyond absurd.

57 minutes ago, 23RD said:

... also a natural location to exfiltrate Coalition Forces after the CIVPOP evacuation is complete.

Aaah ..... I see.

I missed it the previous time you suggested exfiltration.

 

A cunning plan!

 

You seem to know the words but, like mixing up ops and OPs, have no idea what they mean.

 

"exfiltrate" is to withdraw covertly - in layman's terms, to leave without anyone noticing.  You may not have considered it, but it'd rather difficult to "exfiltrate" thousands of troops by C-17 after you've flown out tens of thousands of civilians.

 

Constantly using military terminology (FIBUA, exfiltrate, ARF, etc) is pretty pointless in a forum where the majority have no idea what it means, other than to try to big yourself up, but when it's not only not used in that context by the military (CIVPOP) but you evidently don't understand it (exfiltrate) it goes way beyond absurd.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, riclag said:

You have been watching the news reports!

Guilty as charged, @riclag!

 

Edit: FWIW, I'm not defending Biden at all, far from it, as there were better options - all I'm saying is that NOBODY went for the other options despite twenty years of opportunity to do so.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, 23RD said:

Correct me if I'm wrong any US Veterans but I'm sure the last conscription/draft for The US Military was during the Vietnam war.

The USA draft ended in 1973.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Stonker said:

Constantly using military terminology (FIBUA, exfiltrate, ARF, etc) is pretty pointless in a forum where the majority have no idea what it means, o

Good point Walter I keep forgetting most OP's on the forum haven't read as many Andy McNab novels as you I'll remember next time to put things in more layman's terms.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Stonker said:

You don't know much about American history and conscription, do you?

FWIW, both this president and his predecessor (so one of each, Democrat and Republican) used their connections to defer and avoid conscription and fighting for their country.

I believe the USA draft ended in 1973.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

52 minutes ago, gummy said:

Oh my, that's the old thinking. With the failure of the US in Iraq and Afghanistan there will be no issues for Russia, already supporting Syria, and China now about to work with Afghanistan and consequently by default Iran to totally dominate . The world has changed and all of us better understand that.

Or else!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, Stonker said:

Alternatively you'd be picking civilians up from rooftops and football pitches in Kabul by helicopter, unscreened and unchecked, somehow avoiding the crowds being sliced up by the rotors (which I'd have expected anyone familiar with helicopters to realise), then flying 30,000 (so far) by helicopter from Kabul to Bagram to be flown

No Walter read the post I'm talking about an exfiltration off Coalition troops after the drawdown is completed. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Tornado said:

Maybe the Thaiger should have an American corner and all those baby boomer retirees in Thailand can discuss the endless issues in their country? Although understandably this overwhelms the international press with regards to Afghanistan which affects many countries throughout the world, I think it might be overwhelming the discussion website and possibly deserves its own tab? I believe I read a complaint about it the other day.

Interesting only American retirees on this thread?  Seemed to me there were others here too, but let’s make a new rule.  Participate here on the Thaiger forum, unless you are an American baby boomer retiree. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Stonker said:

Actually it was said by @riclag, who I quoted and addressed the question to.

Then why send that rubbish my way?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, 23RD said:

Correct me if I'm wrong any US Veterans but I'm sure the last conscription/draft for The US Military was during the Vietnam war.

I'm not a "US Veteran" and for once you're not "wrong", but @Farang-Ba, who you quoted, did refer to "since the Korean war" and you then referred to "these foreign wars".

 

American involvement in Vietnam was "since the Korean war".

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
 Share


×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By posting on Thaiger Talk you agree to the Terms of Use