Afghanistan Has Fallen

[Rain]

The liberation of Afghanistan.

Not Fallen.

[Faraday]

 

39 minutes ago, Rain said:

The liberation of Afghanistan.

Not Fallen.

 

Yup, this sure is liberation.

https://metro.co.uk/2021/08/18/taliban-kills-woman-for-not-wearing-burqa-despite-womens-rights-vow-15113471/

[Rain]

9 minutes ago, Faraday said:

Yup, this sure is liberation.

https://metro.co.uk/2021/08/18/taliban-kills-woman-for-not-wearing-burqa-despite-womens-rights-vow-15113471/

Perspectives and knowledge will vary greatly, won't they..

[JamesE]

1 hour ago, Fester said:

No. He wasn't forced to live with it. He reversed or scrapped so much Trump policy, so why not this?

What he has done is to creep out in the middle of the night and leave at least a few thousand people in a very dangerous situation - I don't think that was part of Trump's plan - Biden and his useless VP should quit over this. 

I'm old enough to remember Trump's speech from way back in June of this year where he took credit that the withdrawal was proceeding and that Biden "couldn't stop the process" and couldn't do anything to stop the withdrawal. You should learn the difference between rescinding an executive order and overturning a negotiated agreement.

Have a look at: https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/us-sign-historic-deal-taliban-beginning-end-us/story?id=69287465

and:

https://www.rev.com/blog/transcripts/donald-trump-wellington-ohio-rally-speech-transcript-first-rally-since-leaving-office at the 22:25 mark.

 

"I started the process. All the troops are coming back home. They couldn’t stop the process.
21 years is enough. Don’t we think? 21 years. They couldn’t stop the process. They wanted to, but it was very tough to stop the process when other things…yeah. Thank you."

 

[mcambl61]

8 minutes ago, JamesE said:

I'm old enough to remember Trump's speech from way back in June of this year where he took credit that the withdrawal was proceeding and that Biden "couldn't stop the process" and couldn't do anything to stop the withdrawal. You should learn the difference between rescinding an executive order and overturning a negotiated agreement.

Have a look at: https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/us-sign-historic-deal-taliban-beginning-end-us/story?id=69287465

and:

https://www.rev.com/blog/transcripts/donald-trump-wellington-ohio-rally-speech-transcript-first-rally-since-leaving-office at the 22:25 mark.

"I started the process. All the troops are coming back home. They couldn’t stop the process.
21 years is enough. Don’t we think? 21 years. They couldn’t stop the process. They wanted to, but it was very tough to stop the process when other things…yeah. Thank you."

I guess if you are willing to admit that Joe was not smart enough to keep an operating Bagram air base with air assault assets in place until all people were evacuated, then you would have a salient point. 

 

Nobody thought staying in Afghanistan was a good thing. 

 

But getting out in a controlled protective manner was the obvious way to make it happen. 

 

Unless you are a career corrupt dementia ridden stooge like Joe. 

[Fester]

7 minutes ago, JamesE said:

I'm old enough to remember Trump's speech from way back in June of this year where he took credit that the withdrawal was proceeding and that Biden "couldn't stop the process" and couldn't do anything to stop the withdrawal. You should learn the difference between rescinding an executive order and overturning a negotiated agreement.

Have a look at: https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/us-sign-historic-deal-taliban-beginning-end-us/story?id=69287465

and:

https://www.rev.com/blog/transcripts/donald-trump-wellington-ohio-rally-speech-transcript-first-rally-since-leaving-office at the 22:25 mark.

"I started the process. All the troops are coming back home. They couldn’t stop the process.
21 years is enough. Don’t we think? 21 years. They couldn’t stop the process. They wanted to, but it was very tough to stop the process when other things…yeah. Thank you."

From your first link: "According to Pompeo, the agreement triggers a "conditions-based and phased" U.S. withdrawal and the "commencement" of Afghan negotiations".

You should learn the difference between an orderly withdrawal and this complete disaster that has Biden's name on it.

 

[JamesE]

2 minutes ago, Fester said:

From your first link: "According to Pompeo, the agreement triggers a "conditions-based and phased" U.S. withdrawal and the "commencement" of Afghan negotiations".

You should learn the difference between an orderly withdrawal and this complete disaster that has Biden's name on it.

I'm not disagreeing with the "complete disaster" aspect of this. It's hard to lose a war gracefully and it did happen on Biden's watch but it was a CF of biblical proportions since about 2003. Biden did pass the deadline Trump set by three months, but when a half-million people suddenly realize they're on the list and they should head for the airport, order tends to degrade quickly. Ironically, there are more US troops in Afghanistan right now than there have been for years.

The Taliban held up their end of the deal. They stopped blowing us up and did go to the negotiation table with the incompetent buffoons we were propping up. The $2+ trillion Afghan Army we set up folded like a wet Kleenex.

The western alliances just haven't been able to come to terms with their continuing inability to defeat a bunch of guys wearing sandals. Maybe this time the lesson will stick but I wouldn't put money on it.

[mcambl61]

5 minutes ago, JamesE said:

I'm not disagreeing with the "complete disaster" aspect of this. It's hard to lose a war gracefully and it did happen on Biden's watch but it was a CF of biblical proportions since about 2003. Biden did pass the deadline Trump set by three months, but when a half-million people suddenly realize they're on the list and they should head for the airport, order tends to degrade quickly. Ironically, there are more US troops in Afghanistan right now than there have been for years.

The Taliban held up their end of the deal. They stopped blowing us up and did go to the negotiation table with the incompetent buffoons we were propping up. The $2+ trillion Afghan Army we set up folded like a wet Kleenex.

The western alliances just haven't been able to come to terms with their continuing inability to defeat a bunch of guys wearing sandals. Maybe this time the lesson will stick but I wouldn't put money on it.

Plain and simple, the usa finance the Pakistan military and isi. 

 

These people are the source of the Taliban. 

 

The DC apparatus has funded these idiots for decades. 

 

Stop the funding of Pakistan, sanctions and you can bet this will stop. 

 

Ask yourself why they are not stopping it. 

[JamesE]

19 minutes ago, mcambl61 said:

I guess if you are willing to admit that Joe was not smart enough to keep an operating Bagram air base with air assault assets in place until all people were evacuated, then you would have a salient point. 

Nobody thought staying in Afghanistan was a good thing. 

But getting out in a controlled protective manner was the obvious way to make it happen. 

Unless you are a career corrupt dementia ridden stooge like Joe. 

And apparently none of the generals working for him thought it was a good idea either. But no worries. It was a US base in the 1950s, then an Afghan base, then a Soviet base, then back to Afghan, then US again, back to Afghan (briefly), and now Taliban. This airbase gets passed around more than a bong in a frat house.

"Air assault assets" that we couldn't use because the Taliban weren't engaging us? You're wishing for more civilian casualties just to save face?

25 minutes ago, mcambl61 said:

Unless you are a career corrupt dementia ridden stooge like Joe. 

Now you're just trolling. My President is Elizabeth Warren. Go Squad.

[gummy]

12 minutes ago, JamesE said:

I'm not disagreeing with the "complete disaster" aspect of this. It's hard to lose a war gracefully and it did happen on Biden's watch but it was a CF of biblical proportions since about 2003. Biden did pass the deadline Trump set by three months, but when a half-million people suddenly realize they're on the list and they should head for the airport, order tends to degrade quickly. Ironically, there are more US troops in Afghanistan right now than there have been for years.

The Taliban held up their end of the deal. They stopped blowing us up and did go to the negotiation table with the incompetent buffoons we were propping up. The $2+ trillion Afghan Army we set up folded like a wet Kleenex.

The western alliances just haven't been able to come to terms with their continuing inability to defeat a bunch of guys wearing sandals. Maybe this time the lesson will stick but I wouldn't put money on it.

So the moral of the story is "wear sandals" it will reach places that jackboots can not.

[9S_]

1 hour ago, JamesE said:

I'm old enough to remember Trump's speech from way back in June of this year where he took credit that the withdrawal was proceeding and that Biden "couldn't stop the process" and couldn't do anything to stop the withdrawal. You should learn the difference between rescinding an executive order and overturning a negotiated agreement.

Have a look at: https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/us-sign-historic-deal-taliban-beginning-end-us/story?id=69287465

and:

https://www.rev.com/blog/transcripts/donald-trump-wellington-ohio-rally-speech-transcript-first-rally-since-leaving-office at the 22:25 mark.

"I started the process. All the troops are coming back home. They couldn’t stop the process.
21 years is enough. Don’t we think? 21 years. They couldn’t stop the process. They wanted to, but it was very tough to stop the process when other things…yeah. Thank you.

I’m old enough to remember Biden’s July press conference where he bragged about withdrawing, even going against his intelligence community and the pentagon. So much so he called them liars and said Kabul will never fall 

 

I’m old enough to remember Kamala Harris bragging to the news that she was the last one to leave the room and that she was proud of Joe Biden for deciding to withdraw. Saying he’s study this and it’s his gut feeling that the US withdraw. 
 

I’m old enough to remember that one day before Kabul fell, the Biden administration said Kabul won’t fall. It fell the next day. 
 

I’m old enough to remember that Trump left office in Jan 2021 and that Joe Biden is the resident

[gummy]

Just now, 9S_ said:

I’m old enough to remember Biden’s July press conference where he bragged about withdrawing, even going against his intelligence community and the pentagon. So much so he called them liars and said Kabul will never fall 

I’m old enough to remember Kamala Harris bragging to the news that she was the last one to leave the room and that she was proud of Joe Biden for deciding to withdraw. Saying he’s study this and it’s his gut feeling that the US withdraw. 
 

I’m old enough to remember that one day before Kabul fell, the Biden administration said Kabul won’t fall. It fell the next day. 
 

I’m old enough to remember that Trump left office in Jan 2021 and that Joe Biden is the resident

And I'm old enough to remember some of the utter trip people post on here in an an attempt to swing an argument one way or the other

[gummy]

Well I am impressed that TT is so widely read around the world and by no other than Donald Trump, the principle architect of this withdrawal fiasco.

In a post 35445  last week in this thread I wrote "perhaps the big wig generals had been watching the movie " Dunkirk" the previous day and thought it was a good idea.

Of course the scramble to get Embassy staff out now indicates that after watching that 1st movie they just watched the other one for ideas "The Fall of Saigon". 

 

Now the BBC today reported that Donald Trump put out this statement ;

"Trump likens Kabul evacuees crisis to Dunkirk

Former President Donald Trump has put out a statement saying that the US operation to airlift its citizens and Afghan allies out of the now-Taliban controlled country could be "another Dunkirk situation".

So that indicates he too along with the US generals were all watching that movie together. Just a shame that they didn't learn from history what and why that evacuation was brought about as there are parallels.

 

 

[mcambl61]

1 minute ago, gummy said:

Well I am impressed that TT is so widely read around the world and by no other than Donald Trump, the principle architect of this withdrawal fiasco.

In a post 35445  last week in this thread I wrote "perhaps the big wig generals had been watching the movie " Dunkirk" the previous day and thought it was a good idea.

Of course the scramble to get Embassy staff out now indicates that after watching that 1st movie they just watched the other one for ideas "The Fall of Saigon". 

Now the BBC today reported that Donald Trump put out this statement ;

"Trump likens Kabul evacuees crisis to Dunkirk

Former President Donald Trump has put out a statement saying that the US operation to airlift its citizens and Afghan allies out of the now-Taliban controlled country could be "another Dunkirk situation".

So that indicates he too along with the US generals were all watching that movie together. Just a shame that they didn't learn from history what and why that evacuation was brought about as there are parallels.

Wow, isn't just like a leftist to deflect from the incompetent career corrupt dementia ridden stooge that was not smart enough to keep Bagram functioning as the primary deterrent while evacuating the people first. 

 

Amazing weak deflection 

[Fluke]

3 hours ago, JamesE said:

I'm old enough to remember Trump's speech from way back in June of this year where he took credit that the withdrawal was proceeding and that Biden "couldn't stop the process" and couldn't do anything to stop the withdrawal. You should learn the difference between rescinding an executive order and overturning a negotiated agreement.

Have a look at: https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/us-sign-historic-deal-taliban-beginning-end-us/story?id=69287465

and:

https://www.rev.com/blog/transcripts/donald-trump-wellington-ohio-rally-speech-transcript-first-rally-since-leaving-office at the 22:25 mark.

"I started the process. All the troops are coming back home. They couldn’t stop the process.
21 years is enough. Don’t we think? 21 years. They couldn’t stop the process. They wanted to, but it was very tough to stop the process when other things…yeah. Thank you."

The idea was that US withdraws from Afghanistan and that the Afghanistan army and Government keep in control .

   300 000 Afghan troops keeping the Taliban at bay was the plan . 

Maybe the Taliban wouldnt have tried to take over had Trump still been POTUS .

Maybe they saw how inept Biden was and then decided to take power ?

[Tish]

Meanwhile Priti has opened with an offer of taking 20,000 Afgan refugees into Britain and that's just the start.That along with the already 6 million muslims we have plus record number of boatloads of Africans arriving every day plus the dregs of Eastern Europeans all on benefits,while our old are freezing in Wintertime and our ex service men sleep in shop doorways.What an absolute fxxk up.

[dmacarelli]

On 8/16/2021 at 4:51 AM, 23RD said:

I spent 372 days in Afghanistan over 2 tours my Battalion lost 4 Soldiers KIA and 27 WIA but we inflicted at least 100 times that on the Taliban I've just watched the news and seen those bearded rats sitting in the President Palace in Kabul and Its left me saddened.

But I take pride that Soldiers (off many nations) battered the Taliban into hiding behind Women and Children only brave enough to come out into plain sight when we left like the rats they are.

But the biggest rat is sat in The White House Joseph Bejing Biden who sold us out but what can you expect from a Man that can't protect his own People.

God bless the Soldiers who fought in Afghanistan over the past 20 years only to be sold out by Joe Biden a Man with less of a morale compass than The Taliban.

I appreciate your service to your nation, even though it was in vain. However it was Trump who gave Afghanistan back to the Taliban, and swore to get out of the country. He inflicted the same level of damage on Syria. He was not and is not a patriot, on any level. Just a lying, draft dodging bankruptcy king. 

 

 

Edited August 19, 2021 by dmacarelli

[KaptainRob]

22 hours ago, longwood50 said:

For whatever reason the USA seems to think it is the world's truant officer and it needs to slap bad people and countries.  I suspect this has far more to do with the billions made by influential people who make the weapons of war than it does the USA's embracing any altruistic motive. 

Never a truer word! 

Years ago I had a few days in Patong with an American 'spy', not that he would admit to his actual role, but he did work for the NSC and was on leave from Afghanistan where he'd been in talks with the Taliban.  He couldn't elaborate except to say that some were well educated but the troublemakers were all rag tag warlords who traditionally fought other warlords for territory and now had the US to fight with.

Meanwhile, it's my belief that Washington power brokers, lobbyists, senators, and industrialist are the ones who decide policy and it's all based on lining their pockets.  The President being little more than a figurehead, and the same goes for most 'democratic' nations.

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, dmacarelli said:

I appreciate your service to your nation, even though it was in vain. However it was Trump who gave Afghanistan back to the Taliban, and swore to get out of the country. He inflicted the same level of damage on Syria. He was not and is not a patriot, on any level. Just a lying, draft dodging bankruptcy king. 

I  even the most deranged Democrats (and they are deranged) realise this is Bidens mess this would never have happened under Big Donald J Trump in fact I never seen the Middle East so peaceful after Big Don smashed ISIS.

[PBS]

3 hours ago, JamesE said:

I'm not disagreeing with the "complete disaster" aspect of this. It's hard to lose a war gracefully and it did happen on Biden's watch but it was a CF of biblical proportions since about 2003. Biden did pass the deadline Trump set by three months, but when a half-million people suddenly realize they're on the list and they should head for the airport, order tends to degrade quickly. Ironically, there are more US troops in Afghanistan right now than there have been for years.

The Taliban held up their end of the deal. They stopped blowing us up and did go to the negotiation table with the incompetent buffoons we were propping up. The $2+ trillion Afghan Army we set up folded like a wet Kleenex.

The western alliances just haven't been able to come to terms with their continuing inability to defeat a bunch of guys wearing sandals. Maybe this time the lesson will stick but I wouldn't put money on it.

Numerous reports state US spent $83 billion on Afghan forces since 2001, example below, not trillions.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/08/us-afghanistan-taliban-training/619774/

The trump / Taliban Doha deal did not include a ceasefire with Afghan forces, in fact Taliban increased the tempo of their attacks on Afghan forces after trump's 'deal' from which the Afghan government was excluded.

 

 

 

[PBS]

7 minutes ago, 23RD said:

I  even the most deranged Democrats (and they are deranged) realise this is Bidens mess this would never have happened under Big Donald J Trump in fact I never seen the Middle East so peaceful after Big Don smashed ISIS.

US strategy for defeat of ISIS in Iraq and Syria was established by the Obama Administration, not trump. As you know trump stabbed the Kurds in the back after they had lost approx 11,000 killed fighting IS, with NATO and other coalition forces support. One of many articles which covered trump's betrayal.

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/trump-syria-kurds-906419/

[Fluke]

26 minutes ago, dmacarelli said:

I appreciate your service to your nation, even though it was in vain. However it was Trump who gave Afghanistan back to the Taliban, and swore to get out of the country. He inflicted the same level of damage on Syria. He was not and is not a patriot, on any level. Just a lying, draft dodging bankruptcy king.

No, Trump gave Afghanistan back to the people of Afghanistan .

It was Biden who let the Taliban take over 

[9S_]

33 minutes ago, dmacarelli said:

I appreciate your service to your nation, even though it was in vain. However it was Trump who gave Afghanistan back to the Taliban, and swore to get out of the country. He inflicted the same level of damage on Syria. He was not and is not a patriot, on any level. Just a lying, draft dodging bankruptcy king. 

[dmacarelli]

8 minutes ago, Fluke said:

No, Trump gave Afghanistan back to the people of Afghanistan .

It was Biden who let the Taliban take over 

And how would you suggest Biden could have prevented that from happening, in practical terms?

[mcambl61]

2 minutes ago, dmacarelli said:

And how would you suggest Biden could have prevented that from happening, in practical terms?

Simply by keeping Bagram fully staffed with air power and the base open for flight traffic, while engaging all Taliban who were descending on Kabul for a few weeks while they evacuate. 

 

See how simple that is?