Widow of former Prime Minister dies of Covid-19

[Andrew Reeve]

Quote

 

  On 8/14/2021 at 8:03 AM, Thaiger said:

2 years ago a man with an official Thai National ID Card with the birth date of April 9, 1981, making him 128 years old,

Born in 1981? So 128 years old?

Maybe that should be 1891 .....

 

@Stonker mentioned it hours ago and it was reported to the thaiger news team, thank you

[Soidog]

10 hours ago, Freeduhdumb said:

It's called Epidemiology:
Where do you think Covid-19 ACTUALLY sits on the things that kill Thai citizens matrix?

Here is a fun statistical game... let's log everyone's death and what they are confirmed to have died of, not just SarsCoV2 and tally them all up; see what is actually the deadliest disease processes. Then we could play another game, called Risk Management Analysis and properly prioritize what is killing all of us in order of most significance, then act and manage accordingly/properly. It's called a risk management matrix and the idea is that you would manage high priority/impact/likely, easy to fix diseases (requiring the least effort, resources and societal impact) first, to save the most people by the easiest means and go from there... Just seems to make common sense... doesn't it?

You could play that game but the odds are loaded. People die from many factors such as heart attacks, cancer and road deaths. But we haven’t been making people exercise to keep their hearts healthy for the past years. We haven’t been banning carcinogenic foods to reduce cancers and we haven’t been banning cars to reduce road deaths. But we have been locking down, reducing international travel and vaccinating millions to keep Covid under control. So the comparison is totally flawed. 
The analogy I used before I think stands up. It’s like claiming what’s the point of an umbrella as no one gets wet when they use one compared to the number of injuries sustained while opening one. Stop using the umbrella (akin to stopping Covid restrictions) and everyone will get wet in the rain.  

 

[longwood50]

On 8/14/2021 at 3:36 PM, Faraday said:

She was most probably tested for Covid, but her being positive, doesn't mean she died from it.

Yep, people die all the time at 101.  The fact that she tested positive for Covid only means she died with Covid not necessarily from it.  If she fell and broke her hip, got pneumonia while recovering, did she die from the hip injury or the pneumonia? 

A little more straightforward where in the USA there have been multiple reports of people who succumbed to gunshot wounds but are listed as Covid deaths. 

[Stonker]

12 hours ago, Freeduhdumb said:

Then we could play another game, called Risk Management Analysis and properly prioritize what is killing all of us in order of most significance, then act and manage accordingly/properly.

No we couldn't as that's not how Risk Management Analysis works - the first thing you do in successful risk management rather than something cribbed off the 'net and only partly understood is to rule out those issues you can do nothing about and prioritise those issues where you can.

 

12 hours ago, Freeduhdumb said:

seems to make common sense... doesn't it?

Yes, but unfortunately it's not the solution you've proposed!

[poohy]

Shes 101 death happens around this age...covid or not

[Freeduhdumb]

4 hours ago, Stonker said:

No we couldn't as that's not how Risk Management Analysis works - the first thing you do in successful risk management rather than something cribbed off the 'net and only partly understood is to rule out those issues you can do nothing about and prioritise those issues where you can.

Yes, but unfortunately it's not the solution you've proposed!

https://www.independent.co.uk/asia/southeast-asia/singapore-covid-roadmap-model-lockdown-b1875483.html

[billywillyjones]

On 8/15/2021 at 5:25 AM, Faraday said:

I imagine there's a big difference in numbers; but - & this is not a dig at the OP, it sells newspapers. 

Then people get vaccinated.

And the connection is......(most probably)

James Smith, who works for Reuters & sits on the board at Pfizer.

Problem, reaction, solution.

If that is not a conflict of interest what is... 

[billywillyjones]

On 8/15/2021 at 5:56 AM, PBS said:

What are you trying to achieve with the above post? It is established the elderly with existing chronic conditions are more susceptible to dying as from Covid 19 as it weakens the respiratory  and immune system contributing to an earlier death. Are you suggesting every person who dies with Covid 19 be subjected to an autopsy to satisfy your morbid curiosity? IMO long overdue for those attempting to denigrate the reality of a killer disease, in the middle of a global effort to rein in the spread of Covid 19, pull their head in.

Here in Australia anti vaxxers are now visiting GP clinics asking question to deliberate waste GP's time to slow down vaccination progress; they should be heavily fined / jailed.

https://www1.racgp.org.au/newsgp/clinical/gps-call-out-atrocious-anti-vaxx-plan-to-ambush-pr

Take your meds and calm down...

[Stonker]

11 hours ago, Freeduhdumb said:

https://www.independent.co.uk/asia/southeast-asia/singapore-covid-roadmap-model-lockdown-b1875483.html

Sorry, @Fdd, but I've no idea what the significance of your link is supposed to be.

 

It has nothing to do with Risk Management Analysis, which is what you commented about and I replied to, which you quoted in your comment,  but it's a proposal for Singapore's "road map" from two months ago which has since been rejected by Singapore and was in any case dependent on having over two thirds of the population vaccinated  -  as widely reported, including here.

 

I don't want to be argumentative, but are you just doing cut 'n' pastes fed to you from another forum?

[Freeduhdumb]

8 minutes ago, Stonker said:

I don't want to be argumentative

Then don't be... just agree with everything I say. 

[Stonker]

18 hours ago, longwood50 said:

A little more straightforward where in the USA there have been multiple reports of people who succumbed to gunshot wounds but are listed as Covid deaths. 

Your quote citing the West Palm Beach Medical Examiners Office (MEO)  and mis-reporting of Covid deaths is just a tad economical with the truth.

 

Not only is it from July last year since when reporting has been tightened up, but you've omitted the full explanation from the MEO that these were not included as "Covid deaths" stats.

 

From the MEO:

 

 

"That list is a quick and dirty excel spreadsheet….that is in no way used for the Department of Health reporting," said operations manager Paul Petrino.

Petrino said everyone on the list did test positive for COVID-19.

He said the app the medical examiners use for COVID-19 cases automatically inputs the virus as a cause of death and they have to physically change that box from yes to no if the person had COVID but actually died of something else - like a gunshot.

"That box should have been unclicked because although he was COVID positive, it was not contributory to his death," said Petrino. ... (snip) ...

Petrino emphasized, however, death certificate causes of death are the only ones sent to the Department of Health. Deaths are included if COVID-19 is the primary, secondary or contributory cause of death. People who have COVID but die of something else are not included in the tally, according to Petrino.

County Administrator Verdenia Baker said they rely on the numbers from the Department of Health when making policy decisions, and not the weekly public records list from the Medical Examiner's Office."

 

Rather a different story if you take the time to check it ...

 

 

[longwood50]

2 hours ago, Stonker said:

Rather a different story if you take the time to check it

https://www.skyhinews.com/news/coroner-state-included-a-murder-suicide-in-grands-covid-deaths/

https://www.freedomfoundation.com/washington/washington-health-officials-gunshot-victims-counted-as-covid-19-deaths/

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2665910720300888


There are numerous examples of deaths where the patient was severely ill but tested positive for Covid.  Just like with the wife of the former prime minister.  She was 101.  Did she die from Covid or with Covid?   

If the person is involved in an automobile accident, has severe injuries but contracts Covid while in the hospital and later dies, was it an auto accident since that is what brought the person to the hospital in the first place, or was it Covid that made his recovery more challenging.  

We all die from "something"  The reality is that 94% of those who die "with covid"  also suffered from at least 1 comorbidity.  If a person has heart disease and catches covid and dies from congestive heart failure was that death caused by his heart disease or covid? 

[Stonker]

38 minutes ago, longwood50 said:

https://www.skyhinews.com/news/coroner-state-included-a-murder-suicide-in-grands-covid-deaths/

https://www.freedomfoundation.com/washington/washington-health-officials-gunshot-victims-counted-as-covid-19-deaths/

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2665910720300888


There are numerous examples of deaths where the patient was severely ill but tested positive for Covid.  Just like with the wife of the former prime minister.  She was 101.  Did she die from Covid or with Covid?   

If the person is involved in an automobile accident, has severe injuries but contracts Covid while in the hospital and later dies, was it an auto accident since that is what brought the person to the hospital in the first place, or was it Covid that made his recovery more challenging.  

We all die from "something"  The reality is that 94% of those who die "with covid"  also suffered from at least 1 comorbidity.  If a person has heart disease and catches covid and dies from congestive heart failure was that death caused by his heart disease or covid? 

I genuinely don't know what's so hard to understand.

 

If, for the sake of argument, "94% of those who die "with covid"  also suffered from at least 1 comorbidity" then would the vast majority have died when they did without Covid?

 

Yes or no?

 

... and the answer, obviously, is "no".

 

Yes, a few out of the four and a half million recorded might have done, particularly if they were shot or in a car accident.

 

Similarly, just as many may have died of Covid whose deaths were put down to other causes - for example tens of thousands in UK care homes who were never tested who it's now realised were probably Covid cases.

 

With up to 10,000 or even 15,000 dying every day, if the figures are out overall by a few hundred (or even a few thousand) either way, so what?

[kmc]

On 8/14/2021 at 10:51 AM, King Cotton said:

Good that we're all free and able to have our own takes on happenings like this. That said, my take is that were it not for her suffering Covid, she would be 102 next year. But each to his own, like with most things in life.

Cheers

Certainly she was suffering some other ills.  Prince Philip said it would be a curse for him to reach 100 and hoped he wouldn't.  To each his own tho.   Your take is fair enough

Cheers