Rollout of Pfizer doses gets underway

[Stonker]

5 hours ago, ChristyS said:

  Since  you've  entered  the debate having chosen to contradict one of the more intelligent posts made yet on this forum,  let's have your thoughts on  how a virus is alive, and also almost  philosophical debates in scientific journals?  Let's have an example  of PhDs in recognized  journals  debating  this rather astounding claim. 

I think your ability to judge if a post is "intelligent" or not has to be questionable, at best, since you've just quoted me saying that "I suggest that's where such debate should be, rather than here where it has nothing to do with the topic" but you're then asking me "let's have your thoughts on  how a virus is alive"!

 

As for "an example  of PhDs in recognized  journals  debating  this rather astounding claim" you'll find them in Scientific American, the Microbiology Society, the New Scientist, Cosmos, Web MD, and Live Science, as well as some articles in various lesser educational sites by assorted PhDs.

 

I'm astounded that you'd find that sort of debate "astounding", since it boils down to what's meant by "life" and "living" and if you've never come across that debate you can't have read as widely as you like to think you have.

[Ben]

11 hours ago, HuaHinHappy said:

Really? So what do you think the occurs at the Pfizer facilities in Chesterfield, Kalamazoo and Andover? i don't think they are making frozen pizza.

As mentioned, they produce the from BionTech developed vaccine. 

[HuaHinHappy]

12 minutes ago, Ben said:

As mentioned, they produce the from BionTech developed vaccine. 

No.

The Covid19 vaccine was a co-development project.  In 2018, Pfizer and BioNTech agreed to co- develop mRNA-based vaccines for prevention of influenza based upon BioNtech's mRNA knowledge/intellectual capital. This relationship was expanded in 2020 to  jointly develop BioNTech’s mRNA-based vaccine candidate BNT162 to prevent COVID-19 infection.  The companies  executed a Material Transfer and Collaboration Agreement. All of this is in public disclosure.  Not mentioned is the US, UK, and Canadian research that BioNTech drawed upon to develop its product.  That research was publicly and privately funded.

[Soidog]

12 hours ago, Haole.TH said:

I'm still baffled why "students going abroad" need special vaccines.  Most western gov's are giving free vaccine shots to people coming in to their countries

I think it may have more to do with quarantine rules or even being allowed in to the country if you haven’t been vaccinated? You are correct that if they are already abroad, most countries are vaccinating foreigners the same as locals

[longwood50]

On 8/5/2021 at 9:54 AM, April said:

Happy there are some doses coming to Thailand, I wish other countries would send more vaccines. So this virus will stop mutating. 

There are virologists who believe the vaccines accelerate the mutation of the virus as it defends itself.  This is much like infections treated with antibiotics.  The surviving bacteria becomes immune to the antibiotic creating the superbugs.  

I think we are caught in a no win situation.  If we don't take the vaccines the virus will spread.  If we do take the vaccine it is likely the outcome will be other strains of the virus resistant to the current vaccines and it will require even more new vaccines to combat them. 

[billywillyjones]

2 hours ago, longwood50 said:

There are virologists who believe the vaccines accelerate the mutation of the virus as it defends itself.  This is much like infections treated with antibiotics.  The surviving bacteria becomes immune to the antibiotic creating the superbugs.  

I think we are caught in a no win situation.  If we don't take the vaccines the virus will spread.  If we do take the vaccine it is likely the outcome will be other strains of the virus resistant to the current vaccines and it will require even more new vaccines to combat them. 

But as new CDC guidelines the vaccine is not preventing the spread of Covid as the vaccinated are carriers and many asymptomatic and thinking they don't have anything. 

[Stonker]

7 hours ago, billywillyjones said:

But as new CDC guidelines the vaccine is not preventing the spread of Covid as the vaccinated are carriers and many asymptomatic and thinking they don't have anything. 

"preventing" ?  No.

 

"reducing" ? Yes.

 

If reduced sufficiently it could effectively be eradicated, like polio.

If not reduced sufficiently, it won't be.

[MrStretch]

8 hours ago, billywillyjones said:

But as new CDC guidelines the vaccine is not preventing the spread of Covid as the vaccinated are carriers and many asymptomatic and thinking they don't have anything. 

No, that is not what the CDC said.  The CDC said that the vaccinated COULD / MAY be carriers if they are exposed to the delta variant. And yes, if they have it been exposed to it, they may pass it on to someone else.  If that other person is unvaccinated, then they are in potentially far more danger than a vaccinated person is.

[longwood50]

22 hours ago, billywillyjones said:

But as new CDC guidelines the vaccine is not preventing the spread of Covid as the vaccinated are carriers and many asymptomatic and thinking they don't have anything. 

That is also true.  It would appear that there is no good answer.  You can get vaccinated and it may prevent you from getting the disease or if you do have only mild symptoms or be asymptomatic.  That "may" cause the disease to mutate perhaps even faster requiring even more vaccines.  Alternatively you can not vaccinate the population have potentially more people catch the disease spreading it faster with no guarantee that the virus still won't mutate. 

We have had vaccines for decades for the flu and still on average 9% of the world's population gets the flu each year.  I think it is unlikely that we will be able to come up with a series of vaccines and a vaccination protocol for the world that would substantially eliminate Covid.  I am afraid the world is going to have to come up with the idea of co-existing with Covid and learn to manage the effects of it.  It would appear that trying to eliminate it is like a game of whack a mole where each time you whack one in the head, another pops out of a different hole. 

 

[billywillyjones]

13 hours ago, MrStretch said:

No, that is not what the CDC said.  The CDC said that the vaccinated COULD / MAY be carriers if they are exposed to the delta variant. And yes, if they have it been exposed to it, they may pass it on to someone else.  If that other person is unvaccinated, then they are in potentially far more danger than a vaccinated person is.

Well if they are vaccinated and have covid then obviously they can pass it on to a vaccinated individual as well as unvaccinated.  Let's use some common sense.  And let the unvaccinated make their own choices or have all the vaccinated such deep hearts that all they care about is the safety of the unvaccinated lol quite the opposite from some of the comments I have seen.

[billywillyjones]

15 hours ago, Stonker said:

"preventing" ?  No.

"reducing" ? Yes.

If reduced sufficiently it could effectively be eradicated, like polio.

If not reduced sufficiently, it won't be.

Yeah sure while it keeps mutating due to the vaccines.