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Renowned Thai doctor says 70% of new Covid cases are Delta variant


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29 minutes ago, JamesE said:

A couple of things. First, The USA (variants Alpha and Beta mostly) left us with a 2% fatality rate. India (predominantly Delta) has only a 1% reported rate. However, anecdotal evidence like bodies popping out of mudbanks in the Ganges seem to indicate a significant excess death rate. I agree that it might be too soon to tell accurately but I think the jury's still out on this one. However, Delta is getting cranked up in the US and seeing how we've screwed the pooch on everything else so far we should have better numbers one way or another in the coming weeks.

Second, there is no Darwinian pressure for SARS-CoV-2 to become less lethal over time. Infections become less lethal only when doing so improves their chances at reproduction. Since COVID presents asymptomatically in most cases and is transmissible before symptoms in all cases there is not an incentive toward becoming less lethal. The original SARS didn't have this property and was contained very easily even though it was much more fatal.

Yes fair point on the Darwinian point, although the opposite would be that it would get more dangerous which suggests less asymptomatic cases?

However, and like you say, the next few weeks will be interesting times and show us a lot more about this Delta variant. The U.K. is about to take a massive step in 2 weeks time where it will essentially stop all restrictions. By mid to late August we should know what the Delta variant does under almost zero restrictions.  

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The evidence for Ivermectin, as both prophylactic and treatment, is astonishingly solid.

Hydroxychloroquine not so much, although it appears to benefit certain stacks.

Fluvoxamine is remarkably effective for the brain fog element of long covid and the long covid type symptoms that some people experience following vaccination.

It is important to separate the results from the politics. Never waste time arguing with anyone who claims that stifling discussion or suppressing certain treatments is how you do "The Science".

Just to be clear, I have no objection to getting an mRNA vaccine (Pfizer or Moderna) but we cannot possibly produce enough vaccines for everyone on the planet (Thailand's current dilemma is a good example of that). We should also be giving everyone regular doses of Ivermectin which is cheap (no patent), easy to make, already produced in almost all countries, particularly in the third world, and over four decades of widespread use has shown us that it is entirely safe.

Dramatically reducing the spread of the virus among unvaccinated populations would slow down the production of new variants. There is no downside, other than the fear that it might undermine the argument for vaccines. The decision to go vaccine-only was made early on by the medical administrative establishment. There were obviously a number of non-medical and non-epidemiological considerations at play, as this was largely counter to the advice of scientists and clinicians in the field. 

 

Edited by SickBuffalo
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32 minutes ago, snapdragon said:

You asked me about polio; I responded.

Indeed you did. It was garbage when fact-checked, from start to finish.

 

33 minutes ago, snapdragon said:

Ask your questions. If I can I will answer them.

My first question is 'what point are you trying to make', apart from suggesting that India's deliberately killed off 400,000 of its people (maybe)?

 

My second question is what the hell does anything you've posted here have to do with the topic?

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3 hours ago, Stonker said:

I'm completely lost by the point @snapdragon's trying to make with this, @JamesE.

Welcome to the club. I get the impression snap's got his mind made up and is looking for converts or fellow travelers. The whole "prove me wrong" narrative is in full play.

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3 hours ago, SickBuffalo said:

Dramatically reducing the spread of the virus among unvaccinated populations would slow down the production of new variants. There is no downside, other than the fear that it might undermine the argument for vaccines. The decision to go vaccine-only was made early on by the medical administrative establishment. There were obviously a number of non-medical and non-epidemiological considerations at play, as this was largely counter to the advice of scientists and clinicians in the field. 

 

The unintended consequence of which is that people who railed against the public health measures put in place turned out to be the same people who are euphemistically termed "vaccine hesitant". Had the entire world shut down hard for the month of April, 2020 nobody would be talking about COVID now.

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28 minutes ago, JamesE said:

The unintended consequence of which is that people who railed against the public health measures put in place turned out to be the same people who are euphemistically termed "vaccine hesitant".

I don't think the two categories map so precisely. Again, I have no problem with the Covid-19 vaccines myself, but people are "Covid-19 vaccine hesitant" (and not necessarily hesitant about other vaccines) for many different reasons, some of them entirely valid. I am also aware that some who were very compliant with the various measures, through a fear of what the virus might do to their bodies, are now Covid-19 vaccine hesitant for the same reason.
 

35 minutes ago, JamesE said:

Had the entire world shut down hard for the month of April, 2020 nobody would be talking about COVID now.

I agree, but was that ever possible?

Most governments were surprised by the extent to which their populations were compliant but, of course, there will always be some who bend the rules (not least government ministers). To enforce a watertight lockdown would require a far larger police force and army than most countries have.

You could equally argue that providing our existing, cheap, widely available antiviral drugs to the population - perhaps one city at a time, with intercity travel prohibited - at the start of the pandemic would have pushed transmission below R0 and wiped the virus out within a month without requiring either a hard lockdown or its practically impossible enforcement.

We don't (yet) know for sure but we do know that discussion of those options, by leading medical experts, was suppressed and censored to an unprecedented extent. I suspect this will be one of the major controversies over the next decade.

A final point on the hard lockdown. One month of that would, at least, have made some sense. The half-hearted lockdown we have now had, in some countries, for 16 months was pointless. The damage is staggering. We should, instead, have shielded the vulnerable, providing them with secure accommodation in the empty hotels if they lived with multiple generations in their usual home (something that led to sky-high fatalities in Italy).

By March 2020 we already knew which groups were vulnerable. We could have shielded them and allowed the rest of the population to continue their careers, educations, vacations, relationships, businesses, medical treatments etc.
 

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19 hours ago, mcambl61 said:

This is all ridiculous fear mongering nonsense. The delta variant is much less lethal than the first variants. It is more transmisable, that's it. Stop the melodramatic emotional fear. We know who is more at risk. We know we have at least two therapeutics that work when taken early. 

Stop this BS. 

Yeah that's how viruses generally mutate, if they kill the host then they can't propagate. 

But it seems that is willfully ignored by many. ?‍♂️

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8 hours ago, SickBuffalo said:

 We should also be giving everyone regular doses of Ivermectin which is cheap (no patent), easy to make, already produced in almost all countries, particularly in the third world, and over four decades of widespread use has shown us that it is entirely safe.



 

The people who are on auto-repeat about experimental vaccines being the only solution, are only making an effort to maintain their social group's approval, a means of appearing virtuous. They'll have no alternative solutions considered or tried, their religious leaders have told them as so because otherwise it's "bigotry, phobic, other nonsensical social media dribble" and they'd hate to not be accepted by their tribe. Why? Because they're generally people who have no real sense of purpose, their new found social religion gives them something to latch onto. 

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20 hours ago, MrStretch said:

The Delta variant is not "much less lethal than the first variants".  "It’s likely the most transmissible variant of the SARS-CoV-2 virus identified to date, appears to cause more severe illness than others...a variant of concern that spreads more readily, causes more severe disease, or reduces protection from vaccines or previous infections. Delta checks all three boxes. One study looking at 5.4 million people in Scotland found that infections with delta are more than twice as likely to lead to hospitalizations as infections with the alpha variant.  However, the death rate from delta appears to be comparable to other variants in several countries.?  

It's not fear-mongering nonsense.  You want to dance in the street, hang out with your mates in the pub, go right ahead.  I'm staying at home and masking and distancing if I have to go out.

Sorry, but you can keep your virtue signaling. 

 

 

Is the Delta variant more deadly?

Because the variant is so new, research into it is in early days.

But Professor Turville said so far, mortality rates data looked promising.

"Looking at the 28-day follow up after infection, the death rate for the original variants was 1.9 per cent mortality," he said.

"So far the Delta variant is showing 0.3 per cent mortality.

"That's super encouraging. The early signs look promising, but it is too early to be definitive."

 

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16 hours ago, Stonker said:

Do we?

If so, why have 4 million died, and why are more dying every day?

Yes we do. Ask why the media and the WHO and cdc refuses to acknowledge that ivermectin, hydroxy chloroquine has been highly effective in EARLY treatment, eliminating hospitalization and severe problems in over 95% of people who have been treated with these. 

 

https://www.businesslive.co.za/bd/opinion/2021-05-06-ivermectin-is-a-proven-treatment-for-covid-19-so-lets-use-it/

 

I have three colleagues who have had covid-19, treated early with ivermectin and all were completely over their symptoms within three days and tested positive for antibodies. Zero loss of smell, zero loss of lung function. 

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10 hours ago, JamesE said:

What's interesting about this is in the first two waves of the disease in the US doctors took a kitchen-sink approach to treatment and hit patients with everything from ivermectin and hydroxycholoquine to survivor plasma and monoclonal antibodies. No treatment worked other than the GMO antibodies so were dropped from the toolbox. While ivermectin may have some use in mild to moderate infections it does not seem to be the case in more severe disease.

Ivermectin has been used very effectively when given Early. The key being early treatment 

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1 hour ago, Objectivance said:

The people who are on auto-repeat about experimental vaccines being the only solution, are only making an effort to maintain their social group's approval, a means of appearing virtuous. They'll have no alternative solutions considered or tried, their religious leaders have told them as so because otherwise it's "bigotry, phobic, other nonsensical social media dribble" and they'd hate to not be accepted by their tribe. Why? Because they're generally people who have no real sense of purpose, their new found social religion gives them something to latch onto. 

So much dishonesty in one small message.

Right from the start: "experimental vaccines". You've just slipped that in as if it's a fact, but it's not. It's a lie.

Covid Vaccines have been through the full trial process and are NOT experimental.

Quote

"making an effort to maintain their social group's approval".

So you're saying this is virtue signalling. You're wrong. I don't have a social group here. I'm just so effing sick of hearing you Facebook medical experts with your citations from thetruthaboutcovid19.wordpress.com spouting unsupported BS and absolute lies that contradict established medical resources.

All this nonsense about "virtue signalling" is just classic deflection. Someone says something you don't agree with you claim it's just virtue signalling so you don't have to engage. It's dishonest and childish.

Quote

"They'll have no alternative solutions considered or tried"

Absolute rot. We're happy to see alternative solutions considered or tried. I'm 100% in support of trials of any likely treatment regime, but I also support the rejection of these proposed treatments when they're proven not to be effective.

"their religious leaders have told them as so"

Religious leaders? Oh, because following basic scientific principles and public health experts is a religion, is it? Again, you just slip that in.

Quote

 because it's "bigotry, phobic, other nonsensical social media dribble" 

Wow, way to pretend to be a victim. No, people criticise your bad ideas because they're bad ideas. Get it? They're also HARMFUL. This disease has killed nearly 4 million people so far, and counting.

Quote

"their new found social religion gives them something to latch onto. "

What a big old yawn. It's not a social religion. It's the fact that there's a disease killing a lot of people and shutting down the world and I for one am really sick of hearing all these alternative voices with their alternative facts and their alternative treatments spouting about how they're being silenced.

I wish to god you were.

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31 minutes ago, mcambl61 said:

Yes we do. Ask why the media and the WHO and cdc refuses to acknowledge that ivermectin, hydroxy chloroquine has been highly effective in EARLY treatment, eliminating hospitalization and severe problems in over 95% of people who have been treated with these. 

https://www.businesslive.co.za/bd/opinion/2021-05-06-ivermectin-is-a-proven-treatment-for-covid-19-so-lets-use-it/

I have three colleagues who have had covid-19, treated early with ivermectin and all were completely over their symptoms within three days and tested positive for antibodies. Zero loss of smell, zero loss of lung function. 

Wow, a link from a South African business page, and an anecdote.

Holy crap I'm convinced.

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11 minutes ago, MattBurgess said:

Wow, a link from a South African business page, and an anecdote.

Holy crap I'm convinced.

Then stay in your fear mongering tiny little world. Governments need more sheep like you. 

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11 minutes ago, MattBurgess said:

So much dishonesty in one small message.

Right from the start: "experimental vaccines". You've just slipped that in as if it's a fact, but it's not. It's a lie.

Covid Vaccines have been through the full trial process and are NOT experimental.

So you're saying this is virtue signalling. You're wrong. I don't have a social group here. I'm just so effing sick of hearing you Facebook medical experts with your citations from thetruthaboutcovid19.wordpress.com spouting unsupported BS and absolute lies that contradict established medical resources.

All this nonsense about "virtue signalling" is just classic deflection. Someone says something you don't agree with you claim it's just virtue signalling so you don't have to engage. It's dishonest and childish.

Absolute rot. We're happy to see alternative solutions considered or tried. I'm 100% in support of trials of any likely treatment regime, but I also support the rejection of these proposed treatments when they're proven not to be effective.

"their religious leaders have told them as so"

Religious leaders? Oh, because following basic scientific principles and public health experts is a religion, is it? Again, you just slip that in.

Wow, way to pretend to be a victim. No, people criticise your bad ideas because they're bad ideas. Get it? They're also HARMFUL. This disease has killed nearly 4 million people so far, and counting.

What a big old yawn. It's not a social religion. It's the fact that there's a disease killing a lot of people and shutting down the world and I for one am really sick of hearing all these alternative voices with their alternative facts and their alternative treatments spouting about how they're being silenced.

I wish to god you were.

Thanks, you've made my point for me far better than I ever could've hoped for. Hook, like and sinker. Your sort are just as,  if not more, obnoxious, as the flat-earther essential oils cure late stage cancer cultists. 

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18 minutes ago, MattBurgess said:

So much dishonesty in one small message.

Right from the start: "experimental vaccines". You've just slipped that in as if it's a fact, but it's not. It's a lie.

Covid Vaccines have been through the full trial process and are NOT experimental.

So you're saying this is virtue signalling. You're wrong. I don't have a social group here. I'm just so effing sick of hearing you Facebook medical experts with your citations from thetruthaboutcovid19.wordpress.com spouting unsupported BS and absolute lies that contradict established medical resources.

All this nonsense about "virtue signalling" is just classic deflection. Someone says something you don't agree with you claim it's just virtue signalling so you don't have to engage. It's dishonest and childish.

Absolute rot. We're happy to see alternative solutions considered or tried. I'm 100% in support of trials of any likely treatment regime, but I also support the rejection of these proposed treatments when they're proven not to be effective.

"their religious leaders have told them as so"

Religious leaders? Oh, because following basic scientific principles and public health experts is a religion, is it? Again, you just slip that in.

Wow, way to pretend to be a victim. No, people criticise your bad ideas because they're bad ideas. Get it? They're also HARMFUL. This disease has killed nearly 4 million people so far, and counting.

What a big old yawn. It's not a social religion. It's the fact that there's a disease killing a lot of people and shutting down the world and I for one am really sick of hearing all these alternative voices with their alternative facts and their alternative treatments spouting about how they're being silenced.

I wish to god you were.

Virtue signaling leftist blather alert. Well done. 

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1 hour ago, MattBurgess said:

Covid Vaccines have been through the full trial process and are NOT experimental.

I also support the rejection of these proposed treatments when they're proven not to be effective.

Covid Vaccines have been through the full trial process and are NOT experimental.

Utter nonsense. Just take a look at the FDA website. Their experimental status does not end until the end of 2023. The AZ vaccine is not approved - experimental or otherwise - in the US.

,,,,,when they're proven not to be effective.

Please read up on Dr Tess Lawrie.

 

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1 hour ago, Objectivance said:

Thanks, you've made my point for me far better than I ever could've hoped for. Hook, like and sinker. Your sort are just as,  if not more, obnoxious, as the flat-earther essential oils cure late stage cancer cultists. 

Cool story bro.

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4 minutes ago, snapdragon said:

Covid Vaccines have been through the full trial process and are NOT experimental.

Utter nonsense. Just take a look at the FDA website. Their experimental status does not end until the end of 2023. The AZ vaccine is not approved - experimental or otherwise - in the US.

,,,,,when they're proven not to be effective.

Please read up on Dr Tess Lawrie.

No, their emergency use status ends then. They're NOT experimental.

https://healthfeedback.org/claimreview/covid-19-vaccines-received-emergency-use-authorization-from-the-fda-after-clinical-trials-demonstrated-that-they-are-safe-and-effective-covid-19-vaccines-arent-experimenta/

https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-covid-vaccines-idUSL1N2M70MW

You're just wrong.

 

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3 minutes ago, MattBurgess said:

A play with words...

The normal FDA testing protocol to declare a vaccine safe for use has NOT been followed.  Side-effects like myocarditis (that would normally have been discovered in a regular trial) are now causing alarm.  And what about the consequences for pregnant women and fertility-issues for children?  Originally under the 'emergency use approval' these categories were advised against being jabbed, as they were not part of the trials that resulted in these '100% safe and effective' vaccines.  But the safety-bar has been lowered so much now that also pregnant women and children are seemingly OK to partake in this mass-vaccination madness.  And sociopaths like dr Yong pleading for vaccination of all 3+ year old children, that guy belongs in an institute for the criminally insane.

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