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Ukraine/Russian Conflict - General Discussion


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3 minutes ago, Fanta said:

Now that you mention it Russian forces are in the center of Lysychansk so 2 weeks to mop up the remaining UAF and it’s a Russian wrap for the Luhansk oblast. Donetsk oblast is next and is already 50% under Russian control. Taking the last 50% will likely be a tough slog as it is the most heavily fortified battlefield area in Ukraine.  Hopefully that is “special military operation” complete and the Russian advance stops. Unless you believe that Ukraine with it’s 8 x HMLRS and less than 200 new artillery pieces can turn the tide. If so I have some crypto currency you might be interested in getting into while it is still in beta. 

You still dont get it do you? Taking the Luhansk in its entirety is ONLY important in the eyes of Czar Putin.

No-one else regards it as important.

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16 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

And if the war drags on and Putin cannot find a way to end this soon what happens to him?

imo, nothing. What could happen to the most powerful and protected man in Russia? He would have achieved the goals of his “special military operation”. Russian prestige. He might even get some pushback as to why he stopped in the face of “provocative NATO aggression” if he has pushed his propaganda to his own people effectively. Most likely the common folk will breath a sigh of relief and get back to business in a country with all it’s cities intact, it’s territory intact with a functioning economy buoyed by no energy concerns and no fear of a cold winter: 

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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

You still dont get it do you? Taking the Luhansk in its entirety is ONLY important in the eyes of Czar Putin.

No-one else regards it as important.

Ukraine regards the whole Donbass as important. It's where most of the industry, power generation and natural resources like coal, gas and lithium are.

Edited by dbrenn
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2 minutes ago, Fanta said:

imo, nothing. What could happen to the most powerful and protected man in Russia? He would have achieved the goals of his “special military operation”. Russian prestige. He might even get some pushback as to why he stopped in the face of “provocative NATO aggression” if he has pushed his propaganda to his own people effectively. Most likely the common folk will breath a sigh of relief and get back to business in a country with all it’s cities intact, it’s territory intact with a functioning economy buoyed by no energy concerns and no fear of a cold winter: 

This is a party political broadcast on behalf of the Czar Putin party.

People in Russia are starting to find out the truth. One town in particular is asking where all the airborne forces who used to be stationed there have went to.

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3 minutes ago, dbrenn said:

Ukraine regards it as important. It's where most of the industry, power generation and natural resources like coal, gas and lithium are.

The Ukraine regards all its territory as important. Not a line on a map.

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6 minutes ago, Fanta said:

imo, nothing. What could happen to the most powerful and protected man in Russia? He would have achieved the goals of his “special military operation”. Russian prestige. He might even get some pushback as to why he stopped in the face of “provocative NATO aggression” if he has pushed his propaganda to his own people effectively. Most likely the common folk will breath a sigh of relief and get back to business in a country with all it’s cities intact, it’s territory intact with a functioning economy buoyed by no energy concerns and no fear of a cold winter: 

People here think that Putin will be hauled over to the Hague. It will never happen because he enjoys a lot of popularity on the home front for putting Russia back on the world stage following the humiliation of the Yeltsin years.

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25 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

You still dont get it do you? Taking the Luhansk in its entirety is ONLY important in the eyes of Czar Putin.

No-one else regards it as important.

You don’t get it. Russia’s territorial goals have already been stated and the fall of the Donbas region means offensive goals achieved and time to switch to defense. The Russian Army is built for defense. The UAF still hasn’t broken the front line despite possessing numerically superior forces and having anywhere in the 2,500+km front line to choose from. Russia can dig in, defend their gains and Russify the areas under their control. We are already seeing that happen. Ukraine struggle to hold their own territory despite the allegedly crap Russian army’s many missteps. Do you believe the UAF can mount an offensive before winter? 

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1 minute ago, dbrenn said:

People here think that Putin will be hauled over to the Hague. It will never happen because he enjoys a lot of popularity on the home front for putting Russia back on the world stage following the humiliation of the Yeltsin years.

I'm sure the next guy will enjoy just as much "popularity" 😆

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7 minutes ago, dbrenn said:

Ukraine regards the whole Donbass as important. It's where most of the industry, power generation and natural resources like coal, gas and lithium are.

It's their land, full stop......🥴

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5 minutes ago, dbrenn said:

People here think that Putin will be hauled over to the Hague. It will never happen because he enjoys a lot of popularity on the home front for putting Russia back on the world stage following the humiliation of the Yeltsin years.

There is more chance of getting the Pope into a criminal court because his soldiers of God have been caught kiddie fiddling. 

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1 minute ago, Rookiescot said:

I'm sure the next guy will enjoy just as much "popularity" 😆

Who knows. Fact is, under Yeltsin most Russians lived in poverty and the economy crashed. Under Putin, GDP per capita has risen tenfold since 2000. People there like Putin. They're much better off than they were and he's restored their national pride.

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5 minutes ago, Transam said:

It's their land, full stop......🥴

Same as Crimea. How is that working out 8 years later ? 

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3 minutes ago, dbrenn said:

People here think that Putin will be hauled over to the Hague. It will never happen because he enjoys a lot of popularity on the home front for putting Russia back on the world stage following the humiliation of the Yeltsin years.

You haven't seen the queues at the rebranded McDonald's then................🤣

The Russians that fly the world on holiday's, that freedom, all due to Yeltin's time. No more counting how many cabbages you can grow.

But, Heir Putin doesn't much like the new freedom of his subjects, he has communism in his blood, control the masses whilst living like a king....😊

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1 minute ago, Fanta said:

Same as Crimea. How is that working out 8 years later ? 

How is it working out now, for Heir Putin.....?   😋

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4 minutes ago, Transam said:

How is it working out now, for Heir Putin.....?   😋

Chap ....... u trying to say 'Herr'? 'Mr.' in the German language? 😊🤩😂🤪 

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Posted (edited)
17 minutes ago, Transam said:

You haven't seen the queues at the rebranded McDonald's then................🤣

The Russians that fly the world on holiday's, that freedom, all due to Yeltin's time. No more counting how many cabbages you can grow.

But, Heir Putin doesn't much like the new freedom of his subjects, he has communism in his blood, control the masses whilst living like a king....😊

Chap ..... It was actually Gobachev who got them their freedom. Not Yeltsin, who was a shambling drunkard who ran the economy into the ground. 😇🤩

Edited by dbrenn
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1 minute ago, Fanta said:

You don’t get it. Russia’s territorial goals have already beenstated and the fall of the Donbas region means offensive goals achieved and time to switch to defense. The Russian Army is built for defense. The UAF still hasn’t broken the front line despite possessing numerically superior forces and having anywhere in the 2,500+km front line to choose from. Russia can dig in, defend their gains and Russify the areas under their control. Ukraine cannot defend their own territory despite the allegedly crap Russian army’s many missteps. Do you believe the UAF can mount an offensive before winter? 

Yes I do and I will tell you why. Russia is desperately trying to find forces to replace those lost. Its running short of equipment. Moral is good awful. Resupply is patchy and will get worse as the distances increase.

The Ukraine on the other hand has simply given territory for Russian lives at an astonishing slow rate. Personally I never thought it would happen the way it has. I am guilty of believing in the early stages of the war the Russian forces would simply outmaneuver the Ukrainians. I expected a massive tank led drive from the east to sweep all before it. But then I realised. This is it? This is all the mighty Russia can do? Oh look. Now they are retreating. 

In my defense I expected Russian forces to have the competence and professionalism that western armies do. It is abundantly clear they do not have that. Or even a fraction of it.

So now Russia has had to revert to first world war tactics. Shell the crap out of somewhere (with civilians there too) and advance 500 yards. Rinse and repeat. They are now using Naval missiles from the 1960's to attack city centers. With shite results it has to be said.

So. Running out of equipment. Running out of personnel. Running out of capacity to resupply. 

I know it. You know it. Czar Putin knows it. And you can bet yer arse NATO knows it.

So lets fast forward a couple of months. NATO finally got its finger out its backside and delivered sufficient heavy weapons. The Ukrainians are now fully trained on how to use them.

The Russian forces have been in the field for months with little resupply or rotation. 

The longer this war goes on the better it places the Ukraine. Its bleeding Russia white.  

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21 minutes ago, Fanta said:

Same as Crimea. How is that working out 8 years later ? 

Thats what appeasement gets you.

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1 hour ago, Transam said:

Any NATO nation will not get their doors kicked in, unless Heir Putin makes another big mistake....

That's what I implied in the comment you quoted.

Why would I have forgotten about Poland '39? 🤔

What's up with "Heir" Putin, has his mum died and he inherited her porcelain? 🤪

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2 hours ago, Transam said:

You haven't seen the queues at the rebranded McDonald's then................🤣

Amazing  --- Thay bag everything western  BUT cannot get enough of McDonalds.

I fell sure Putins propaganda machine will pump out some excuse for this, maybe McDonalds was really invented in Russia and those dirty imperialist swine stole the idea.🤣

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Posted (edited)

President Zelensky spokesman concedes that the city of Lysychansk will fall within a day or so. Where next? Or will the West try to broker peace somehow, before Ukraine gets eaten bit by bit.

Edited by dbrenn
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7 hours ago, dbrenn said:

so it's understandable that Russia would want a bulwark between an ever expanding NATO, now that it has the capacity to enforce this on the ground.

Translation = Russia has the right to invade a sovereign country and murder its people to create a buffer state. Never mind Putin has already said this is a war to return land that rightfully belongs to mother Russia. Never mind that Ukraine was precluded from joining NATO and Russia already held that key (therefore already had a buffer state). Never mind NATO was already adjoining Russia. Never mind the plan blew up in his face by convincing Sweden and Finland to join NATO adding over 800 miles of border adjoining Russia. 
 

We aren’t even talking about all the other things that have boomeranged on Russia because of invading Ukraine. 
 

the best part of the video is fact he blows up Mearsheimer in front of him. 

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So suggested component subjects are peace, peace , weapons ….then peace again.This is clearly not intended as any general discussion. “Peace” Agenda already Set here. Yet Peace Clearly Not Wanted by Either Side (at this time) so it’s currently Pure Fantasy, Distractive Deflection. Disrespects the brave defiant Ukranians wishes actually. It just ain’t happening. Ukraine Will Let Us Know if THEY change policy. 

Russia Lavrov alluded to this several weeks ago, calling “ peace negotiations” a “pretence” by Ukraine. Exactly. No Denial from Zelensky. Nor any present Peace Initiative. 

WW2 Allies had long since discarded Peace by 1941, (roughly where this War is at now). Their & Ukraine Aims surely were /are Stop Losing, Start Winning, Recover Lands & Victory. “ Peace” right now is for the birds…..

Accordingly, Suggest Three New Threads.

Ukraine War: Peace Options.

Ukraine War: Strategy, Operations & Tactics

Ukraine War Politics & Economics 

 

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Mearscheimer fully & correctly represents Putins Strategic View. And agrees with it all. Problem is this View is clearly wrong. with gaping holes.

1. NATO are simply Never going to physically attack a nuclear-armed Russia, without NATO first being physically attacked. Absurd Idea that exposes the lie of “ NATO are Threatening Us”.

2. NATO role Unchanged  from inception, i.e. protect against clear existential threat of belligerent Unfree Russia. 

3. Mexico having Russian forces there could  ONLY  be interpreted as a Hostile Aggression to USA. No Other Purpose. USA does not threaten Mexico.

4. NATO / US forces in Baltics might be seen or claimed by Russia as Hostile BUT ( much more logical )could also be purely Defensive ( unlike the Mexico / Russia scenario) . 

5. NATO a “ hostile” cold war force , when compelled to defend against the naked terror & nuclear might of Russian Communism? “ Hostile” ? Give me a break ….a pure absurdity.
 

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2 hours ago, oldschooler said:

5. NATO a “ hostile” cold war force , when compelled to defend against the naked terror & nuclear might of Russian Communism? “ Hostile” ? Give me a break ….a pure absurdity.

If anybody with your attitude has any influence in NATO, then yes, it's definetely a hostile force.

Just look at the terms and language you use.

 

Oh.... and this gem: "Russian Communism" - really? 😂

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