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News Forum - Teenage gunman goes on rampage killing 19 children and 2 adults at a Texas primary school


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7 hours ago, 23RD said:

That's exactly why certain people need to stop making assumptions in an ongoing incident. 

Democrats, CNN, MSNBC, and Co are blaming everyone from Trump to Adolf Hitler without knowing the facts of a fluid situation. 

Very unprofessional and undignified. 

You are the only one doing that.

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8 hours ago, vlad said:

We in the UK suffered a School shooting in Dunblane in 1996 over 25 years ago our Government took action on gun control and we have not had any more School shootings since. Why can't the yanks do the same?

Maybe cause the "yanks" kicked the UK out in 1776 and wrote their own constitution and 1 of the amendments was the right to bear arms so we could kick the UK out again in 1812 

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The USA has more than enough laws and regulations to control  gun violence. New York City has some of the  toughest rules in place and yet it is beset by increasing rates of murder and mayhem. What is missing is a willingness by the individuals to respect the law. The USA is now all about selfishness. It's a me first culture. There was a time in Texas when the state was without firearm restrictions and where there was endemic brutality, and yet there never were mass murders where people shot up social events or schools. Why was that? It wasn't about  capital punishment because Texas executes people today just as frequently as in the good old days. It also locks up more people than ever before.

I offer that it is all about  people only concerned about themselves and what is in it for them. The USA has lost its sense of community and social responsibility that  made the USA what it was. That erosion of moral decency took root in the Vietnam war era and exploded in the Reagan era because there were no moral boundaries that held back government  criminals like Oliver North who illegally sold weapons to the Nicaraguan narco terrorists. The Trump era with its encouragement of of conspiracy claims, and people like Alex Jones who claimed  the Sandy Hook massacre was fake or the now dead Rush Limbaugh who invented plots of left wing intrigue, while engaged in illegal narcotics activity further eroded the moral restraints of society.

7 hours ago, Freeduhdumb said:

America wouldn't exist without guns. And it won't continue to exist without them. America was founded upon freedom and the only thing that will keep America from devolving into a full tyranny again are individual ownership of the means to protect themselves. There is a reason the wise so called "founding fathers" made the second amendment to the U.S. Constitution the very next amendment behind the most important... free speech. 

No, the USA was not founded on freedom. In case you didn't know, the USA  had some of the highest rates of slavery in the western world. Enslaving natives and  africans  is not freedom. The USA had the same brutal laws that the Europeans had.  What the USA had was a culture of brutality and state sanctioned theft that allowed white people to move into the native lands and to steal the land. The USA has not dealt with its legacy of slavery and state sanctioned genocide of native people. Until it does, it will have a festering wound on its soul.

7 hours ago, Freeduhdumb said:

The fact that you attempt to denigrate a short simple post as some sort of lack of American history is the stupidity here... and your statistical analysis is all wrong. The highest rate? Really? It's high no doubt... however.

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2019/08/05/743579605/how-the-u-s-compares-to-other-countries-in-deaths-from-gun-violence

u.s. gun violence.jpg

If you are ok with comparing the USA with the developing world, ok. How about comparing to countries with high level of firearm in population, like Sweden, Israel, Canada, Switzerland, Finland etc.

5 hours ago, Soidog said:

Totally agree mate. The U.K. has many such issues and yet doesn’t suffer from such random acts of mass killings. Nearly all such incidents have been related to ease of access to guns. The person finally snaps and heads to dads unlocked gun cupboard and goes on the rampage. Make it harder to find a gun (I wouldn’t have a clue where to find one and never have) and the number of such crimes would reduce significantly.   
 

This argument that the only way to stop someone with a gun is another person with a gun is correct. But that needs to be trained police, not school security or even armed teachers as some US gun supporters would advocate. 
 

Apologies to all the Americans on this forum, but you really do need to sort out this nonsense and see what a backward Wild West hang over you still have. If this was in Thailand everyone would be referring to an under developed society. A third world country. Lack of education etc etc. To a European, this looks exactly the same to us taking place in the US. 

UK has same issues as USA except on a smaller scale. Violent crime is prevalent. A day doesn't go by that there isn't a knife or slashing attack involving younger people. Too many dead kids. The knife users have no respect for others, no self control and a selfish view to do as they want, all under a system which protects the rights of the  perpetrator. It is the same moral decay as seen in the USA.  Yes, you are right that gun restrictions do help, especially in urban areas.

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19 minutes ago, MikeW said:

Maybe cause the "yanks" kicked the UK out in 1776 and wrote their own constitution and 1 of the amendments was the right to bear arms so we could kick the UK out again in 1812 

A constitution over 200 yrs ago when muskets were being used now 18 yr old kids can buy semi Automatic Rifles from a high St store and then go onto shoot kids in School God bless the USA.

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7 hours ago, BillO said:

Tim are you actually familiar with the American gun laws? As a lawyer I am. And also as one who had gone through the arduous process a normal citizen needs to go through to get a gun! You make these unsupported off handed comments about how easy it is to get a gun in the US. Before you make such assertions I suggest you go to the US and just try to get a gun legally. It is anything but easy. It’s far easier to get a gun from the illegal cartels that the liberal government so easily let’s transverse our southern borders on a daily basis! 

you mean like this.

 

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30 minutes ago, Vigo said:

The USA has more than enough laws and regulations to control  gun violence. New York City has some of the  toughest rules in place and yet it is beset by increasing rates of murder and mayhem

You were making alot of sense there Vigo.

 

32 minutes ago, Vigo said:

That erosion of moral decency took root in the Vietnam war era and exploded in the Reagan era because there were no moral boundaries that held back government  criminals like Oliver North who illegally sold weapons to the Nicaraguan narco terrorists. The Trump era with its encouragement of of conspiracy claims, and people like Alex Jones who claimed  the Sandy Hook massacre was fake or the now dead Rush Limbaugh who invented plots of left wing intrigue,

And then came out with this love the way you name checked five Republicans. 

The reason were seeing so much of this criminality if one half of the political divide (and I don't mean the Red half) has tried to erode the rule of Law and attempted to portray Law Enforcement as the enemy of the people. 

Bail reform so hardened criminals can literally commit murder and be back on the streets within hours.

Unfortunately the more the Democrats move to the extremes the worst its going to get.

The only saving grace for average people is The 2nd Amendment and the right to self defence. 

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5 minutes ago, 23RD said:

 

The reason were seeing so much of this criminality if one half of the political divide (and I don't mean the Red half) has tried to erode the rule of Law and attempted to portray Law Enforcement as the enemy of the people. 

 

So that is why the Texan Governor, a Republican by the way, signed a slew of laws freeing up the carrying of guns. How does all that help the enforcement of law and order? The laws being:

 

  • House Bill 1927: Known as permitless or constitutional carry, it allows Texans to carry handguns in public without a license and the background check and training that a license requires.
  • House Bill 2622: Known as the "Second Amendment Sanctuary State Act," it prohibits state agencies and local governments from enforcing new federal gun rules.
  • House Bill 1500: Prevents government entities from banning the sale or transportation of firearms or ammunition during a declared disaster or emergency.
  • House Bill 957: Exempts firearm suppressors that are made and remain in Texas from federal laws and regulations.
  • House Bill 1407: Allows license holders to carry visible, holstered handguns anywhere in a motor vehicle, rather than having to wear the handgun in a shoulder or belt holster.
  • House Bill 1387: Allows certain foster homes to store guns and ammunition together in the same locked location, rather than requiring the items to be stored separately.
  • House Bill 1069: Allows certain first responders to carry handguns.
  • House Bill 2112: Removes the requirement that handguns must be carried in a "shoulder or belt" holster, expanding what kinds of holsters are legal.
  • House Bill 103: Creates a statewide active shooter alert system.
  • House Bill 4346: Prohibits certain firearm restrictions on a property during the use of an easement.
  • House Bill 29: Allows state-owned public buildings to provide self-service weapon lockers.
  • House Bill 1920: Expands and clarifies what constitutes a secured area of an airport in relation to possessing a firearm.
  • House Bill 2675: Requires the Texas Department of Public Safety to expedite the handgun license process for individuals "who are at increased risk of becoming victims of violence."
  • House Bill 918: Makes young adults between the ages of 18-20 eligible for a license to carry a handgun if they are protected under certain court orders related to family violence.
  • House Bill 781: Allows junior college school marshals to carry concealed handguns rather than storing them.
  • Senate Bill 741: Allows school marshals in public school districts, open-enrollment charters, and private schools to carry concealed handguns rather than storing them.
  • Senate Bill 20: Allows hotel guests to carry and store firearms and ammunition in their rooms.
  • Senate Bill 19: Prohibits government entities from contracting with businesses that "discriminate against the firearm or ammunition industries."
  • Senate Bill 162: Known as the "lie and try" bill, makes it a state crime to lie on a background check in order to illegally purchase a firearm.
  • Senate Bill 550: Removes the requirement that handguns must be carried in a "shoulder or belt" holster, expanding what kinds of holsters are legal.
  • Senate Bill 313: Creates a sales and use tax exemption for firearm safety equipment.
  • Senate Bill 168: Requires schools to use best practices when conducting active shooter drills, so they're less harmful to students' mental health and wellbeing; went into effect immediately.

 

https://www.houstonpublicmedia.org/articles/news/politics/2021/08/30/407291/here-are-the-new-texas-gun-laws-going-into-effect-on-sept-1/

Heard a news report that Texas is now so liberal in its gun laws that Mexican crime gangs purchase their guns there to ship them back to Mexico! This seems to support that.

https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2022/02/stopping-toxic-flow-of-gun-traffic-from-u-s-to-mexico/

Not something to be proud about. But I suppose the Republicans are happy to support free trade.

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33 minutes ago, Vigo said:

The USA has more than enough laws and regulations to control  gun violence. New York City has some of the  toughest rules in place and yet it is beset by increasing rates of murder and mayhem. What is missing is a willingness by the individuals to respect the law. The USA is now all about selfishness. It's a me first culture. There was a time in Texas when the state was without firearm restrictions and where there was endemic brutality, and yet there never were mass murders where people shot up social events or schools. Why was that? It wasn't about  capital punishment because Texas executes people today just as frequently as in the good old days. It also locks up more people than ever before.

I offer that it is all about  people only concerned about themselves and what is in it for them. The USA has lost its sense of community and social responsibility that  made the USA what it was. That erosion of moral decency took root in the Vietnam war era and exploded in the Reagan era because there were no moral boundaries that held back government  criminals like Oliver North who illegally sold weapons to the Nicaraguan narco terrorists. The Trump era with its encouragement of of conspiracy claims, and people like Alex Jones who claimed  the Sandy Hook massacre was fake or the now dead Rush Limbaugh who invented plots of left wing intrigue, while engaged in illegal narcotics activity further eroded the moral restraints of society.

No, the USA was not founded on freedom. In case you didn't know, the USA  had some of the highest rates of slavery in the western world. Enslaving natives and  africans  is not freedom. The USA had the same brutal laws that the Europeans had.  What the USA had was a culture of brutality and state sanctioned theft that allowed white people to move into the native lands and to steal the land. The USA has not dealt with its legacy of slavery and state sanctioned genocide of native people. Until it does, it will have a festering wound on its soul.

If you are ok with comparing the USA with the developing world, ok. How about comparing to countries with high level of firearm in population, like Sweden, Israel, Canada, Switzerland, Finland etc.

UK has same issues as USA except on a smaller scale. Violent crime is prevalent. A day doesn't go by that there isn't a knife or slashing attack involving younger people. Too many dead kids. The knife users have no respect for others, no self control and a selfish view to do as they want, all under a system which protects the rights of the  perpetrator. It is the same moral decay as seen in the USA.  Yes, you are right that gun restrictions do help, especially in urban areas.

Your liberal rant doesn’t even mention anything about the incident  involving a   Sick young lad

I got an idea,Better to beef up security in and around schools ! Schools should be treated like banks in my country.

urban areas lol Chicago comes to mind!

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9 minutes ago, Smithydog said:

So that is why the Texan Governor, a Republican by the way, signed a slew of laws freeing up the carrying of guns. How does all that help the enforcement of law and order? The laws being:

  • House Bill 1927: Known as permitless or constitutional carry, it allows Texans to carry handguns in public without a license and the background check and training that a license requires.
  • House Bill 2622: Known as the "Second Amendment Sanctuary State Act," it prohibits state agencies and local governments from enforcing new federal gun rules.
  • House Bill 1500: Prevents government entities from banning the sale or transportation of firearms or ammunition during a declared disaster or emergency.
  • House Bill 957: Exempts firearm suppressors that are made and remain in Texas from federal laws and regulations.
  • House Bill 1407: Allows license holders to carry visible, holstered handguns anywhere in a motor vehicle, rather than having to wear the handgun in a shoulder or belt holster.
  • House Bill 1387: Allows certain foster homes to store guns and ammunition together in the same locked location, rather than requiring the items to be stored separately.
  • House Bill 1069: Allows certain first responders to carry handguns.
  • House Bill 2112: Removes the requirement that handguns must be carried in a "shoulder or belt" holster, expanding what kinds of holsters are legal.
  • House Bill 103: Creates a statewide active shooter alert system.
  • House Bill 4346: Prohibits certain firearm restrictions on a property during the use of an easement.
  • House Bill 29: Allows state-owned public buildings to provide self-service weapon lockers.
  • House Bill 1920: Expands and clarifies what constitutes a secured area of an airport in relation to possessing a firearm.
  • House Bill 2675: Requires the Texas Department of Public Safety to expedite the handgun license process for individuals "who are at increased risk of becoming victims of violence."
  • House Bill 918: Makes young adults between the ages of 18-20 eligible for a license to carry a handgun if they are protected under certain court orders related to family violence.
  • House Bill 781: Allows junior college school marshals to carry concealed handguns rather than storing them.
  • Senate Bill 741: Allows school marshals in public school districts, open-enrollment charters, and private schools to carry concealed handguns rather than storing them.
  • Senate Bill 20: Allows hotel guests to carry and store firearms and ammunition in their rooms.
  • Senate Bill 19: Prohibits government entities from contracting with businesses that "discriminate against the firearm or ammunition industries."
  • Senate Bill 162: Known as the "lie and try" bill, makes it a state crime to lie on a background check in order to illegally purchase a firearm.
  • Senate Bill 550: Removes the requirement that handguns must be carried in a "shoulder or belt" holster, expanding what kinds of holsters are legal.
  • Senate Bill 313: Creates a sales and use tax exemption for firearm safety equipment.
  • Senate Bill 168: Requires schools to use best practices when conducting active shooter drills, so they're less harmful to students' mental health and wellbeing; went into effect immediately.

https://www.houstonpublicmedia.org/articles/news/politics/2021/08/30/407291/here-are-the-new-texas-gun-laws-going-into-effect-on-sept-1/

Heard a news report that Texas is now so liberal in its gun laws that Mexican crime gangs purchase their guns there to ship them back to Mexico! This seems to support that.

https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2022/02/stopping-toxic-flow-of-gun-traffic-from-u-s-to-mexico/

Not something to be proud about. But I suppose the Republicans are happy to support free trade.

To answer that one Smithydog it's not guns that kill people It's the criminals that use guns that kill people .

As for Texas I  totally stand behind their stance on The 2nd Amendment better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.

Look at the Democrat run Blue States where most of the crime and murders occur the only people that can carry firearms with impunity are criminals elements because of political correctness and bail reform laws.

I've said it for over 30 years now take away legally held firearms the only people that suffer are the law abiding Citizens the criminal's don't respect Laws. 

But that being  said  having been a skill at arms Instructor in my previous life I strongly believe anyone in any Country wishing to own a firearm should require two things 1. a clean criminal record and 2. Must have completed an training package on the firearm they wish to purchase which should include practical weapon handling and achieve a certain standard on a live firing range prior to being able to purchase a firearm. 

 

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6 hours ago, Dmitrii said:

"rifles should not be easily available to all" - quite the opposite, the problem is that the murderer was armed and everybody else in the entire school were unarmed and unprepared for the assault.

A school needs to be better prepared for aggression like that: has an armed guard and a reliable way to call for support from local police forces.

That dickhead managed to kill so many innocents exactly because he faced no resistance.

Ah so you advocate that little kids at school should all be carrying so that they can defend themselves. Very intelligent attitude I'm sure that would be a good solution. 🙄

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At the other end of the spectrum the UK has some of the strictest gun laws around, and a year's worth of gun crime in the UK would be a quiet weekend in many US cities. Would that change if guns were easily available, would stabbings (and there is plenty of knife crime, although not the epidemic that the media would have you believe) be replaced by shootings? I don't know. Would it prevent this kind of insanity? Probably not. One thing that is difficult to argue against though is a ban certain types of guns - is there any reason why anyone outside the armed services or law enforcement should be allowed to possess automatic or semi-automatic weapons?

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In the USA, COCAINE HAS BEEN ILLEGAL FOR MY ENTIRE 51 year life, yet people still sell, buy, and die from cocaine.  We have a tremendous amount of traffic laws, yet people still speed, drive irresponsibly, and kill/die by the thousands each year.  The USA has thousands of tax laws, yet people still refuse to pay taxes, especially some of our biggest companies like Apple, FaceBook, Google, etc., who keep billions of dollars overseas to avoid paying taxes.  For all you Einstien’s out there, it is currently against the law to shoot and kill anyone with a gun, regardless of the type, including the type of grip, magazine capacity, automatic or semi automatic.  Creating more gun laws will do absolutely nothing but keep law abiding citizens from defending themselves from people who could care less about following the law.  Ban guns!  Yes, how did the ban on cocaine, Heroin, and opium go?  I beg anyone to give me a specific law that would stop unlawful people from getting and killing others individually or in groups.  
 

The one common thread that seems to be prevalent, is that the shooters are suffering from mental illness.  My Sister, an assistant school principle, tells me that if teachers, counselors, other students find or identify a child clearly suffering from some mental illness, their hands are tied via the law, in terms of identifying that student, let alone require a therapeutic remedy via a psychologist or psychiatrist.  In short, the ACLU, decimated the mental health system in the USA, back in the 1980s.  Yes, it needed reform for sure, but it was basically eradicated.  Now, we have a profuse amount of people with mental health problems on our streets. Politicians like to call them “homeless”, because they do not want their term in office to be tied to mentally ill drug addicts, who will NEVER have a home or job or descent life without some treatment via a sound mental health system.  
 

So if I ran things, and in my opinion, I would “ shooter proof” our schools first.  Some parents will say, “ Oh no, what does it say about our schools if we have to send our children through metal detectors each day, it is to traumatic for the children.  Well, dumb ass, it says your kid isn’t going to get shot while learning, and will be able to follow their dreams.  Also, I do not see people who are traumatized going through security prior to boarding an airplane.  Annoyed, yes, but alive and happy to be traveling.   Next, I would institute a vibrant mental health system, preferably a private system, because anything run by the US government, NEVER works efficiently or the way it is suppose to.  Are the above mentioned solutions possible?  Well, the USA and other nations just spent billions and billions of dollars, over 20 years, for nothing.  Zero return on investment.  We could have turned every school in the world into a Fort Knox type safe area for learning for that money, plus create a descent mental health system.  
 

So anyone who tries to inject politics in this situation, is just full of shit.  A very special kind of stupid shit at that.  With a good mental health system, we could actually help people on our streets, we could help kids from ever getting to the point they think shooting school kids is a good idea for any reason.  The question is how many more kids have to die before our schools are strengthened, and how many more mentally ill drug addicts have to die before we give them some meaningful treatment.  Republican, Democratic, or Independent matters not.  None of the people in Washington care.  
 

As for me, I will continue to exercise my right to carry and conceal.  As such, I will lawfully maintain my ability to do so safely, and hope, pray, beg I never ever have to use it.  I will also hope, pray, beg, that at some point the people of my country will force some common sense into this situation, and force our politicians to actually do right by the tax payers, instead of blabbing Bullshit and never getting anything done.  All of the above is simply my opinion, as a regular tax paying citizen of the USA.
 

 

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What other country in the world has a problem with mass shootings other than the USA?

Why do people need assault rifles to defend themselves?

Why does an 18 year old need a rifle and 375 rounds of ammunition?

To defend himself?

The legal age to buy a gun in Texas is 18, the legal age to buy alcohol in Texas is 21.

Does that make sense?

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COWBOYS

The 2nd amendment: 'The right to bare arms' or should it read 'the right to mass murder.' Unfortunately, Americans are still living in the wild west days when maybe the 2nd amendment may have been justified, however, there is no place for it in todays society. President Biden might as well be talking to a brick wall, as America will never change its ways, this is due to the huge amounts of wealth to be made from firearms companies, not to mention, the money trail all the way to high profile investors and politicians in Washington. Removing firearms from Americans would be like extracting ones teeth. Will never happen, its a mindset embedded from the womb.

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18 hours ago, Tim_Melb said:

Nothing else needs to be said.

Let's take the emotion out of it and look at the objectivity of the right to keep and bear arms, and why?
 

 

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32 minutes ago, Freeduhdumb said:

Let's take the emotion out of it and look at the objectivity of the right to keep and bear arms, and why?

The why is the necessity of owning guns caused largely by the gun culture in the US. No guns = no gun culture = no mass shootings. Every life is sacred. Dressing the paranoia up in red, white & blue is just another aspect of the defense of the indefensible and self defense is a justification for the very tools that cause unnecessary deaths. Simple as that. If I lived in the US I would carry out of necessity. In most other countries I would not feel the need to carry a “force multiplier” because I would not live in fear of the general population. Americans need their guns because of their fellow Americans. Gun ownership is a national addiction. All addictions need to be recognized and admitted to before action can be taken to address the root cause. 

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Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, 23RD said:

To answer that one Smithydog it's not guns that kill people It's the criminals that use guns that kill people .

As for Texas I  totally stand behind their stance on The 2nd Amendment better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.

Look at the Democrat run Blue States where most of the crime and murders occur the only people that can carry firearms with impunity are criminals elements because of political correctness and bail reform laws.

I've said it for over 30 years now take away legally held firearms the only people that suffer are the law abiding Citizens the criminal's don't respect Laws. 

But that being  said  having been a skill at arms Instructor in my previous life I strongly believe anyone in any Country wishing to own a firearm should require two things 1. a clean criminal record and 2. Must have completed an training package on the firearm they wish to purchase which should include practical weapon handling and achieve a certain standard on a live firing range prior to being able to purchase a firearm. 

I agree with what you say about the ownership. After all, we licence people to drive cars to certain standards and it is easy to argue they are equally a lethal weapon in the wrong hands.

But the ease of purchasing guns in some states due to inconsistent standards across the US presents dangerous opportunities. Much has been said about Chicago for example, but repeated reports of the sources of the weapons are showing they are generally obtained from states, especially Indiana, who have far more lax standards to purchase.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2021/04/27/chicago-sues-gun-store-tied-850-guns-recovered-crime-scenes/4854619001/

Look, what the Americans chose to do is up to them. But it is clear to the rest of the world that there are conflicts between freedoms expressed by the constitution and the simple rights for people to go about their daily lives in a safe manner. I have been reading both arguments at length for some time now and at times it is easy to believe why people may think it is seemingly easier in some states to buy a gun than a dog!

You do see the partisan divide clearly and there is fault on both sides. Both parties need to get together and find a compromise solution for America and set aside the partisan politics for a change.

Personally, I am confident responsible gun owners teach their kids all the safety aspects and the responsibility that goes along with it, apart from probably a few in the extreme! Hence they would easily be able to demonstrate that to the satisfaction of assessors.

But it seems crazy that a boy just turned 18 years old, can walk in and buy 2 assault rifles without satisfying anyone he has a genuine need for them, with little or no assessment of his mental health and is unassessed on his capability to safely use, store and maintain such weapons.

 

Edited by Smithydog
typo
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32 minutes ago, Fanta said:

The why is the necessity of owning guns caused largely by the gun culture in the US. No guns = no gun culture = no mass shootings. Every life is sacred. Dressing the paranoia up in red, white & blue is just another aspect of the defense of the indefensible and self defense is a justification for the very tools that cause unnecessary deaths. Simple as that. If I lived in the US I would carry out of necessity. In most other countries I would not feel the need to carry a “force multiplier” because I would not live in fear of the general population. Americans need their guns because of their fellow Americans. Gun ownership is a national addiction. All addictions need to be recognized and admitted to before action can be taken to address the root cause. 

So you think there are no guns under the bed in the USA..?

If guns were banned in the USA, there would still be zillions out there.....

Guns were banned in the UK, do you think the UK is gun free..........?   😊.......🤭

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10 hours ago, riclag said:

Your liberal rant doesn’t even mention anything about the incident  involving a   Sick young lad

I got an idea,Better to beef up security in and around schools ! Schools should be treated like banks in my country.

urban areas lol Chicago comes to mind!

This highlights the issue in the USA compared to other countries. Why should such measures even be needed? Metal detectors was the talk of the land for a while. Other countries have no need for such measures to protect the kids, so why does the USA, unless there is a real problem they are unwilling to do anything about.

To take it to an extreme, what next? Strip searches daily, barbed wire, gun emplacements and body cavity searches? Rapid Response SWAT teams posted on the grounds?

I am not such how added measures build kids into responsible adults nor proclaim their freedom!

 

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I think you need to look deeper than just gun availability or the sheer number of guns. But what is it that makes people cling to guns so fervently? What has happened to make the need (desire) to have guns a necessity in so many lives? And what has happened to society that another human can become so desperate or hopeless that they choose to take up guns against children? Sure there is psychopathy of this particular murderer. But how is it he became so desperate and no one was there to help (or care) - beit family, friends, teachers, coworkers. I don't have any answers. But it seems that until we start asking what we can do to make the world a more humane place, inhumane things will continue to occur (with increased frequency I'm afraid).

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1 hour ago, Transam said:

So you think there are no guns under the bed in the USA..?

If guns were banned in the USA, there would still be zillions out there.....

Guns were banned in the UK, do you think the UK is gun free..........?   😊.......🤭

Good point Transam there are many illegal firearms in the UK not so much from legacy gun ownership from before most accessibility was banned after Hungerford but from the many firearms that have been brought in illegally mainly from Eastern Europe by criminal's. 

It's a lucrative business and a result of lax border enforcement in the UK.

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22 hours ago, Freeduhdumb said:

The fact that you attempt to denigrate a short simple post as some sort of lack of American history is the stupidity here... and your statistical analysis is all wrong. The highest rate? Really? It's high no doubt... however.

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2019/08/05/743579605/how-the-u-s-compares-to-other-countries-in-deaths-from-gun-violence

u.s. gun violence.jpg

Or, "how to lie with statistics".  Here's something that is a bit more on topic:

1351460469_schoolshootingsbycountry.thumb.PNG.0054dea1fde6761171b6b03b838d59cd.PNG

 

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4 hours ago, KT50 said:

In the USA, COCAINE HAS BEEN ILLEGAL FOR MY ENTIRE 51 year life, yet people still sell, buy, and die from cocaine.  We have a tremendous amount of traffic laws, yet people still speed, drive irresponsibly, and kill/die by the thousands each year.  The USA has thousands of tax laws, yet people still refuse to pay taxes, especially some of our biggest companies like Apple, FaceBook, Google, etc., who keep billions of dollars overseas to avoid paying taxes.  For all you Einstien’s out there, it is currently against the law to shoot and kill anyone with a gun, regardless of the type, including the type of grip, magazine capacity, automatic or semi automatic.  Creating more gun laws will do absolutely nothing but keep law abiding citizens from defending themselves from people who could care less about following the law.  Ban guns!  Yes, how did the ban on cocaine, Heroin, and opium go?  I beg anyone to give me a specific law that would stop unlawful people from getting and killing others individually or in groups.  
 

The one common thread that seems to be prevalent, is that the shooters are suffering from mental illness.  My Sister, an assistant school principle, tells me that if teachers, counselors, other students find or identify a child clearly suffering from some mental illness, their hands are tied via the law, in terms of identifying that student, let alone require a therapeutic remedy via a psychologist or psychiatrist.  In short, the ACLU, decimated the mental health system in the USA, back in the 1980s.  Yes, it needed reform for sure, but it was basically eradicated.  Now, we have a profuse amount of people with mental health problems on our streets. Politicians like to call them “homeless”, because they do not want their term in office to be tied to mentally ill drug addicts, who will NEVER have a home or job or descent life without some treatment via a sound mental health system.  
 

So if I ran things, and in my opinion, I would “ shooter proof” our schools first.  Some parents will say, “ Oh no, what does it say about our schools if we have to send our children through metal detectors each day, it is to traumatic for the children.  Well, dumb ass, it says your kid isn’t going to get shot while learning, and will be able to follow their dreams.  Also, I do not see people who are traumatized going through security prior to boarding an airplane.  Annoyed, yes, but alive and happy to be traveling.   Next, I would institute a vibrant mental health system, preferably a private system, because anything run by the US government, NEVER works efficiently or the way it is suppose to.  Are the above mentioned solutions possible?  Well, the USA and other nations just spent billions and billions of dollars, over 20 years, for nothing.  Zero return on investment.  We could have turned every school in the world into a Fort Knox type safe area for learning for that money, plus create a descent mental health system.  
 

So anyone who tries to inject politics in this situation, is just full of shit.  A very special kind of stupid shit at that.  With a good mental health system, we could actually help people on our streets, we could help kids from ever getting to the point they think shooting school kids is a good idea for any reason.  The question is how many more kids have to die before our schools are strengthened, and how many more mentally ill drug addicts have to die before we give them some meaningful treatment.  Republican, Democratic, or Independent matters not.  None of the people in Washington care.  
 

As for me, I will continue to exercise my right to carry and conceal.  As such, I will lawfully maintain my ability to do so safely, and hope, pray, beg I never ever have to use it.  I will also hope, pray, beg, that at some point the people of my country will force some common sense into this situation, and force our politicians to actually do right by the tax payers, instead of blabbing Bullshit and never getting anything done.  All of the above is simply my opinion, as a regular tax paying citizen of the USA.
 

You nailed it ,mate! Adding more restrictions via bans and laws,is not the answer .

A lot more discussion on MH

 

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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, riclag said:

You nailed it ,my man! Adding more restrictions via bans and laws,is not the answer .

This is demonstrably false.  The assault weapons ban reduced shootings. When it expired, shootings tripled. 

 

Assault weapon ban significantly reduces mass shooting

 

If you want to keep denying that, then what is the answer?  Enough with the "no we can't" attitude. 

 

onion.png.31c3d37f6df263fba568e36f97861d0d.png

Edited by Augratin
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