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News Forum - UK Pensions in Thailand losing up to 20,160 baht a year


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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, Thaidup said:

Just give the ex call and tell her you may have to come back, a guaranteed 50.000 extra signatures.🙂

Or start a petition to limit politicians to the same pensions as the tax payer.👍

55k is more than half way to the target. Anyone who doesn’t bother to sign it is never allowed to complain about the issue ever IMHO 😄

Edited by Stevejm
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Posted (edited)
On 5/16/2022 at 4:41 PM, stevedom said:

In answer to the UK Governments statement on frozen UK. pensions.

The statement on Pensions by the UK Government must be shown up for what it is – that is an uncaring attitude towards its most needy & deserving citizens!

Only if there is a legal requirement would they be willing to pay the correct & still meagre amount of pension increase to those who choose to live in certain countries.

This should be a natural & humane priority to support those poorest in the wider community of British citizens not only done if compulsory!

Being a “longstanding policy” does not mean it’s correct! Hanging was also a”longstanding policy” but we have become more humane & compassionate, so it has changed!

If the NIC don’t earn entitlement to uprating of pensions payable abroad why do some pensioners abroad get this uprate?

The Government states that our NIC contributions do not pay for our pensions – yet if my investment had been in other areas I would be receiving many times more than I get from the Government now! Together with the total lack of clarity on these payments NOT being for a state pension or an annual increase NOT being available in certain countries the use of the word “benefit” is an insult to many who have never claimed from the Government because of great pride & conscience. These payments are pensioners right & due returns on working & paying NIC their whole lives!

The paragraph on the NIC payments being only applicable to one year at a time is contradictory because when you retire the whole pension is based on the total paid in over your entire working life and indeed if short can be made up by a further lump payment!

The UK pensions fund is very robust at present & used to invest in other areas to make money – around 30 billion – so 0.6 billion is a very small extra payment to quibble about, especially as it is the pensioners money!

Saying pensioners have a choice where they live is irrelevant & should not be any part of a reason NOT to receive their due annual increases.

Compassion seems to have no place in successive Governments policies when pensioners are concerned but the opposite where immigrants are helped abundantly – even after not paying taxes for many years like their British counterparts!

Most immigrants can’t get any government funds until they have been in the country for many years ( I think it is called the No recourse to public funds condition). There are some exceptions like asylum applications who the government would rather pay than allow them to work and support themselves whilst they wait years for their case to be heard!

PS I hope you signed the petition otherwise you can’t really complain can you? It might seem futile but there is more chance of getting something done if there is a parliamentary debate than if there is just a written answer which is just a statement of policy

Edited by Stevejm
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16 hours ago, Soidog said:

It’s 65,000 baht a month and it can come from your personal U.K. account, but it must show as an international transfer. The trouble with Wise is that they use Kaisakorn bank and when you send say £2,000 over, it happens in seconds but shows as an “Interbank transfer”. Hence immigration think you could be moving 65,000 in and out of two Thai banks and not importing or transferring it from overseas. 

So which is the best company to use so we see an 'international transfer' marker?

I know of another company called XE.

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5 minutes ago, JamesR said:

So which is the best company to use so we see an 'international transfer' marker?

I know of another company called XE.

I’ve never used XE. Previously I had set up a bank account with the London branch of the Bangkok Bank. The problem there was additional admin costs and poor exchange rates. I think Wise is a good option and I’m in email discussions with them over this intermittent issues of wrong coding. For now, the trick to ensure International transfer, does seem to be sending it late Friday U.K. time or over the weekend. This seems to pause the transfer and seemingly a more deliberate act of the coding gets it correct. Happy to update on conversations with Wise as and when. 

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9 minutes ago, Soidog said:

I’ve never used XE. Previously I had set up a bank account with the London branch of the Bangkok Bank. The problem there was additional admin costs and poor exchange rates. I think Wise is a good option and I’m in email discussions with them over this intermittent issues of wrong coding. For now, the trick to ensure International transfer, does seem to be sending it late Friday U.K. time or over the weekend. This seems to pause the transfer and seemingly a more deliberate act of the coding gets it correct. Happy to update on conversations with Wise as and when. 

Thanks for that, and thanks in advance for the future info you will send over re Wise.

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Just now, JamesR said:

Thanks for that, and thanks in advance for the future info you will send over re Wise.

A further thought, what about if we present our UK bank account statements and the Thai bank account statements and the immigration can see £x amount left our UK account and x baht was deposited in our Thai bank accounts as additional proof?

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13 minutes ago, JamesR said:

A further thought, what about if we present our UK bank account statements and the Thai bank account statements and the immigration can see £x amount left our UK account and x baht was deposited in our Thai bank accounts as additional proof?

I’m not sure about that mate. As you will know, Thai authorities show very little creative thinking on such matters. Rules are Rules and Computer says NO are the norm. It’s something that would need to be tried and even then it would depend on the local Immigration office and vary from place to place. 
 

I was told that under Thai banking laws, any international transaction over 50,000 baht (think it was 50,000) means the receiving bank has to submit a document to the Thai central bank. Going to Kaisakorn bank where the Wise transaction takes place and gaining a copy of that documentation may help. However that has to be from the Kaisakorn bank branch in Bangkok. All rather messy. 
 

The real answer is for Wise to sort out their mess on this. They have the specific option on their app and so they understand the issue. They just need to sort out Kaisakorn bank and make sure the transaction is coded properly. 

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42 minutes ago, Soidog said:

I’m not sure about that mate. As you will know, Thai authorities show very little creative thinking on such matters. Rules are Rules and Computer says NO are the norm. It’s something that would need to be tried and even then it would depend on the local Immigration office and vary from place to place. 
 

I was told that under Thai banking laws, any international transaction over 50,000 baht (think it was 50,000) means the receiving bank has to submit a document to the Thai central bank. Going to Kaisakorn bank where the Wise transaction takes place and gaining a copy of that documentation may help. However that has to be from the Kaisakorn bank branch in Bangkok. All rather messy. 
 

The real answer is for Wise to sort out their mess on this. They have the specific option on their app and so they understand the issue. They just need to sort out Kaisakorn bank and make sure the transaction is coded properly. 

From the Wise web transfer site.

"Due to regulatory changes in Thailand, transfers of 50,000 THB and above will only be available for Kasikorn Bank, Bangkok Bank, and Siam Commercial Bank recipients. Effective on 10 Jan 2022 at 9AM Bangkok Time. Transfers under 50,000 THB remain unaffected for all supported recipient banks."

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15 minutes ago, JamesR said:

From the Wise web transfer site.

"Due to regulatory changes in Thailand, transfers of 50,000 THB and above will only be available for Kasikorn Bank, Bangkok Bank, and Siam Commercial Bank recipients. Effective on 10 Jan 2022 at 9AM Bangkok Time. Transfers under 50,000 THB remain unaffected for all supported recipient banks."

Yes that’s correct. Wise use Kasikorn and I have an account with Bangkok Bank and so it’s not an issue for me. 

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22 minutes ago, Soidog said:

Yes that’s correct. Wise use Kasikorn and I have an account with Bangkok Bank and so it’s not an issue for me. 

I use Bangkok bank too, I only have a passbook and a debit card for the ATM, they said I can not get full internet/online access until I have a 'retirement' type of visa.

Do you have full internet/online banking access?

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Posted (edited)
18 hours ago, Thaidup said:

I think these laws are similar to Australia, Designed to stop immigrant residents from sponsoring family members to live in the country for a few years and then going back home and claiming a pension from the host country. Issue is that long term workers/contributors to the tax base have got caught up in the reforms.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/using-the-nhs-when-you-return-to-live-in-the-uk

Above link details the criteria for accessing free health care in UK. Actually primary health care including doctor services are free for everyone in  UK although treatment may be subject to charges if you are not eligible. Eligibility is residence based. There is a list of documents on the webpage that may be used to demonstrate  your entitlement. Hope this is useful. Note the linked article mentions that you should register with a local GP using form GMS1 and that you may be required to demonstrate your eligibility for free care when you register. I actually submitted a GMS1 form by email when I was in UK last Xmas for a holiday and it was accepted without any problems. Mind you I still have a UK license with my UK permanent address on it which may come up if anyone puts my name in the system. I also included a copy of my old NHS card from the 1980s when I registered which may have helped.

Edited by Stevejm
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5 hours ago, JamesR said:

I use Bangkok bank too, I only have a passbook and a debit card for the ATM, they said I can not get full internet/online access until I have a 'retirement' type of visa.

Do you have full internet/online banking access?

No I’ve never had a retirement visa but I have full internet banking. Did you go to the branch where you set up the account? It’s total nonsense if they won’t give you internet access. 

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6 minutes ago, Soidog said:

No I’ve never had a retirement visa but I have full internet banking. Did you go to the branch where you set up the account? It’s total nonsense if they won’t give you internet access. 

I will try that the later on this year when I go to Thailand, (Phuket).

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23 hours ago, JamesR said:

A further thought, what about if we present our UK bank account statements and the Thai bank account statements and the immigration can see £x amount left our UK account and x baht was deposited in our Thai bank accounts as additional proof?

No chance of success. Immigration are busy enough and what they’re asking to see is hardly onerous.

You need to present a statement showing 12 payments (and it needs to be roughly the same day each month) on a single piece of paper which the bank will give you. 

Im surprised anyone has a problem with Wise coding - if you select the ‘Long term stay in Thailand’ you’ll get the right coding. In the couple of years since they introduced that option (in response to expats concerns) I’ve never had an issue. 

Kasikorn is Wise bank in Thailand hence the transfer in seconds - I am with Bangkok bank which always arrives at 14:01 the following day. 

There is no company that comes close to the Wise setup. Tried them all. 

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21 hours ago, JamesR said:

I use Bangkok bank too, I only have a passbook and a debit card for the ATM, they said I can not get full internet/online access until I have a 'retirement' type of visa.

Do you have full internet/online banking access?

One bank even of the same company can be very different from another. When I first opened an account the first branch of Bangkok Bank said I needed a work permit, the second branch around 100 metres away set it up immediately with no mention of a work permit. If you don’t get what you want simply go to another branch. 

Online access has absolutely no connection to visas. 

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On 5/17/2022 at 9:43 PM, JamesR said:

I think we have to take it case by case.

The only pension I get will be the state pension.

My other income is rent from properties in the UK.

No matter where I live I will have to pay tax to the UK at the end of the year on the total sum of rental income plus the state pension, each year I fill in an online form and then pay the tax at the end of the year.

Regarding the NHS, I have never been asked by a doctor or hospital if I have am non-resident, I don't know anybody who has.

I worked in the USA for a year, no one asked me anything when I got back.

For sure there will be many different scenarios. So you’re one of those people that declare their rental income ? 😉

Re NHS if you’re registered with a GP they’re not going to ask questions, if you’re not they might enquire why. 

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Posted (edited)
25 minutes ago, Benroon said:

Re NHS if you’re registered with a GP they’re not going to ask questions, if you’re not they might enquire why. 

With this in mind I registered via email  with a GP when I was back in UK last Xmas. It took a while to get a response but shortly after they replied accepting my registration I received a letter from the NHS inviting me to get vaccinated. The letter included my NHS number ( my old NHS number from the ‘80s has been superseded by the new format). Didn’t take a lot of effort and may be useful in the future.

Edited by Stevejm
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1 hour ago, Benroon said:

No chance of success. Immigration are busy enough and what they’re asking to see is hardly onerous.

You need to present a statement showing 12 payments (and it needs to be roughly the same day each month) on a single piece of paper which the bank will give you. 

Im surprised anyone has a problem with Wise coding - if you select the ‘Long term stay in Thailand’ you’ll get the right coding. In the couple of years since they introduced that option (in response to expats concerns) I’ve never had an issue. 

Kasikorn is Wise bank in Thailand hence the transfer in seconds - I am with Bangkok bank which always arrives at 14:01 the following day. 

There is no company that comes close to the Wise setup. Tried them all. 

Thanks for the info, I just sent a test transaction of £50 and I saw the  ‘Long term stay in Thailand’ option.

So all we have to do is go to the bank and they will print out a years worth of deposits into my bank which is Bangkok Bank?

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1 hour ago, Benroon said:

One bank even of the same company can be very different from another. When I first opened an account the first branch of Bangkok Bank said I needed a work permit, the second branch around 100 metres away set it up immediately with no mention of a work permit. If you don’t get what you want simply go to another branch. 

Online access has absolutely no connection to visas. 

Great, thanks, I will give it a go when I arrive in Thailand later this year.

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1 hour ago, Benroon said:

For sure there will be many different scenarios. So you’re one of those people that declare their rental income ? 😉

Re NHS if you’re registered with a GP they’re not going to ask questions, if you’re not they might enquire why. 

"For sure there will be many different scenarios. So you’re one of those people that declare their rental income ?"

I will keep that to myself. 😀

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12 hours ago, Benroon said:

Im surprised anyone has a problem with Wise coding - if you select the ‘Long term stay in Thailand’ you’ll get the right coding. In the couple of years since they introduced that option (in response to expats concerns) I’ve never had an issue. 

Sorry @Benroonbut I follow exactly the process you describe. I send it via HSBC to Wise and ALWAYS select the last option of “Funds for long term stay in Thailand”. It works 3 out of 4 times and then suddenly you get an Interbank transfer coding rather than International transfer coding. This only needs to go wrong once in 12 months and you have a problem. You may be lucky and not have had a problem, but this is far more than the odd “finger problem”. This is an inherent issue with Wise that remains unresolved. 

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10 hours ago, JamesR said:

Thanks for the info, I just sent a test transaction of £50 and I saw the  ‘Long term stay in Thailand’ option.

So all we have to do is go to the bank and they will print out a years worth of deposits into my bank which is Bangkok Bank?

Please heed my words @JamesR  if it was that simple then no problems. You need to be careful here. Up until now, the only way the right coding occurs is when I send funds late on a Friday or over the weekend. That’s not to say other times during the week it fails to have the right coding, but it’s hit and miss and you can not rely on this. One monthly transfer that goes wrong and you are screwed.  

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6 hours ago, Soidog said:

Sorry @Benroonbut I follow exactly the process you describe. I send it via HSBC to Wise and ALWAYS select the last option of “Funds for long term stay in Thailand”. It works 3 out of 4 times and then suddenly you get an Interbank transfer coding rather than International transfer coding. This only needs to go wrong once in 12 months and you have a problem. You may be lucky and not have had a problem, but this is far more than the odd “finger problem”. This is an inherent issue with Wise that remains unresolved. 

Sorry to hear that - yes must be frustrating. Which bank do you have here ?

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17 hours ago, JamesR said:

Thanks for the info, I just sent a test transaction of £50 and I saw the  ‘Long term stay in Thailand’ option.

So all we have to do is go to the bank and they will print out a years worth of deposits into my bank which is Bangkok Bank?

You need 12 months of statements in full ie every page and then you need a single statement (for the life of me I can't remember what it's called) again from the bank showing each deposit on one page. However it's not too important you know the name of it as if you tell them it's for immigration they will know exactly what to give you.

In the years I've done it, I've never hit a hitch apart from one year they complained it wasn't sent on the same day each month (roughly) ! (But still allowed it)

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3 hours ago, Benroon said:

Sorry to hear that - yes must be frustrating. Which bank do you have here ?

Bangkok Bank in Thailand. HSBC in the U.K.  

At the moment it’s not an issue for me as I’m not planning on retiring in Thailand just yet. I was first alerted to the problem by a friend of mine who had been doing the same thing and went to extend his visa on the basis of retirement in Rayong recently. He got the bank statements and all the other paperwork and went to immigration. Each monthly transaction was around 75,000-80,000 baht and hence he thought all ok. The immigration officer then spotted two monthly transactions showing “IB” coding. This is an Inter-Bank transfer and hence not seen as money transferred in to the country. He was refused the extension of his “retirement visa”. With only a short period left on his current visa he was left with little choice but to pay “under the table”. 

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