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News Forum - Ukraine’s Zelensky defies Russia’s ultimatum to lay down weapons


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1 hour ago, Fanta said:

“In response, the U.S. kicked Ankara out of the F-35 program and slapped sanctions on the Turkish defense industry.

After that spat, Turkey began toying with the idea of buying Russian fighter jets and even developing its own program. However, it is also seeking to both upgrade its F-16 fleet and purchase new F-16 planes.

I highly doubt Turkey is allowed F-35s, not as long as they keep the S-400 Russian air defense system. However the F-16 are a lock. 

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So after over 2 Months of continually shelling and Bombardment from Russian forces the last fighters of the Azovstal Steel plant have surrendered to Russian forces. A victory claimed by Russia this is what liberation means in Russia completely flatten a city making it unhabitable kill thousands your supposed to be liberating and then celebrate a victory well done.

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11 hours ago, EdwardV said:

However I completely agree, why not just call some of them up?

Maybe because Russia doesn’t need them? If Russia was losing as many troops as is claimed, necessity would dictate a call up. Russia had added 12,000 or so to replace claimed losses of 40,000+. That makes no sense. Russia has maybe 200,000 deployed and Ukraine has probably 2 or 3 times that amount. And for such a demoralized, poorly trained & equipped, disastrously led rabble of an army getting thoroughly smashed they sure have taken a lot of ground. This map shows just the Donbas region. Add in that all the other occupied area across the entire front need to be secured with troops stationed there and Russian forces must be running razor thin across the front IF the MSM claims are believed. 

D42C4725-FE26-4304-9577-3CC1784472DC.thumb.png.40121d09f0c9b986619add969f69a30e.png

btw: Someone needs to show Brigadier Barry the script of Russia indiscriminately targeting civilians as his statement below shows he hasn’t seen it. 

However, he says Ukraine will still be able to use urban areas in the Donbas to slow down Russia's advances. Fighting in town and cities, as has been shown throughout this war, favours the defender.”

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-61524175 

 

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Posted (edited)
On 4/23/2022 at 3:55 PM, NorskTiger said:

HAHA, "NATO protects against Evil".. I think there are many thousands or HUNDREDS of thousands of relatives of dead people who may disagree with you. Yes, yes, Putin is a "psychopath". Such an easy way and simle world view. If Putin dies all Russia surrenders and they will do whatever CIA/Washington DC says, LOLLOL.

Yes, NATO protects against evil. That is a simple fact. And no, taking out Putin would not necessarily solve all problems. But it would lead to some kind of change.

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Ukraine is my business as long as my country is taking part in this war.

Then you should stop spreading misinformation about it. It seems you are fine with Russian imperialism and genocide, but not with helping Ukraine defend itself.  

 

On 4/23/2022 at 3:59 PM, NorskTiger said:

      And a legitimately elected leader was toppled. It matters little how it happened. This is a typical recipe if it is difficult to win an election. Also, the division in Ukraine really got off after that. 

      "The people" were not rising up. It was mob rule that took over. And there was no democratic process, which the West is always so proud of. 

This is false. He was indeed elected, but turned against the will of the people, causing unrest and protests. He then started killing protesters, and it all culminated in him running away and new elections being held. Democratic elections.

It was indeed the people rising up. Protests are not "mob rule". But it seems that you are taking the Russian position that protests are unacceptable.

 

Edited by Guphz
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On 4/23/2022 at 10:18 PM, Fanta said:

A forum rule is that, within reason, if you state something as a fact then you need to supply a credible source for verification. The Russian are advancing not retreating. The 2nd map shows the direction of forces. 
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60506682
 

Take a look at your own map. It shows Russia pushed back to the east. Retreated and defeated everywhere else.

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On 4/25/2022 at 12:56 PM, Freeduhdumb said:

Your a mind controlled robot who has no critical thinking skills, let alone any real-world experience. I lived there, worked there and have many colleagues and friends there... Unlike you, I have real-world on the ground experience. You TV critics have not the slightest idea what is actually going on there... You're a typical Statist... 

I'm not sure what your point is. Living somewhere does not automatically give you insight. As you can see from the many Russians who are brainwashed by their own government.

The fact is that it was the people rising up against an increasingly unpopular president.

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4 hours ago, Fanta said:

Maybe because Russia doesn’t need them? If Russia was losing as many troops as is claimed, necessity would dictate a call up. Russia had added 12,000 or so to replace claimed losses of 40,000+. That makes no sense. Russia has maybe 200,000 deployed and Ukraine has probably 2 or 3 times that amount. And for such a demoralized, poorly trained & equipped, disastrously led rabble of an army getting thoroughly smashed they sure have taken a lot of ground. This map shows just the Donbas region. Add in that all the other occupied area across the entire front need to be secured with troops stationed there and Russian forces must be running razor thin across the front IF the MSM claims are believed. 

D42C4725-FE26-4304-9577-3CC1784472DC.thumb.png.40121d09f0c9b986619add969f69a30e.png

btw: Someone needs to show Brigadier Barry the script of Russia indiscriminately targeting civilians as his statement below shows he hasn’t seen it. 

However, he says Ukraine will still be able to use urban areas in the Donbas to slow down Russia's advances. Fighting in town and cities, as has been shown throughout this war, favours the defender.”

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-61524175 

After 3 months of war this is all the mighty Russian bear has managed?

Western armies would have managed that in the first 48 hours.

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4 hours ago, Fanta said:

Maybe because Russia doesn’t need them? If Russia was losing as many troops as is claimed, necessity would dictate a call up. Russia had added 12,000 or so to replace claimed losses of 40,000+. That makes no sense. Russia has maybe 200,000 deployed and Ukraine has probably 2 or 3 times that amount. And for such a demoralized, poorly trained & equipped, disastrously led rabble of an army getting thoroughly smashed they sure have taken a lot of ground. This map shows just the Donbas region. Add in that all the other occupied area across the entire front need to be secured with troops stationed there and Russian forces must be running razor thin across the front IF the MSM claims are believed.

You seem to have forgotten that Russia was pushed back from the rest of Ukraine. Their gains are extremely small compared to the sacrifices they had to make and the losses they had to take.

Russia is indeed losing massive amounts of troops and equipment, and the problem is that they can't easily replace them because not only would they have to actually declare war, but it also takes time to train new troops.

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btw: Someone needs to show Brigadier Barry the script of Russia indiscriminately targeting civilians as his statement below shows he hasn’t seen it. 

However, he says Ukraine will still be able to use urban areas in the Donbas to slow down Russia's advances. Fighting in town and cities, as has been shown throughout this war, favours the defender.”

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-61524175 

 

Fighting in urban areas is perfectly legitimate. Turning entire cities into rubble is not. But Russian forces are so amateurish and inept that they keep being destroyed in direct combat.

 

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5 minutes ago, Guphz said:

Take a look at your own map. It shows Russia pushed back to the east. Retreated and defeated everywhere else.

Pushed back from the outskirts of Kharkiv which they never tried to take. It was/is an artillery battle. The Russians are still there In Ukrainian territory that is controlled by Russia. See the color scale for who controls what….. 
Also see the red arrows. And the purple ones? Guess which is who. And they are going to Donbas. 
FB9E5C0F-F457-478D-8BAF-31F94DA8548F.thumb.png.c5670c0baf200c17753440668b85c696.png

Retreated and defeated? I wouldn’t say the Ukrainians are defeated. One side is advancing and one side is retreating. Guess which is which? 

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46 minutes ago, Guphz said:

You seem to have forgotten that Russia was pushed back from the rest of Ukraine.

lol.. look at a map. The rest of your post … Why do you bother? If I want to hear about how incompetent the Russian occupiers are and how it is all just an indiscriminate attack targeting civilians I will search out the latest Zelenskyy video on MSM. You probably think the Avosteel fighters were evacuated and will soon be home in prisoner exchange with a ticker tape parade. Unless you have an opinion of your own or some facts and can discuss them without regurgitating propaganda don’t bother. 

 

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9 minutes ago, Fanta said:

Pushed back from the outskirts of Kharkiv which they never tried to take. It was/is an artillery battle. The Russians are still there In Ukrainian territory that is controlled by Russia. See the color scale for who controls what….. 
Also see the red arrows. And the purple ones? Guess which is who. And they are going to Donbas. 
FB9E5C0F-F457-478D-8BAF-31F94DA8548F.thumb.png.c5670c0baf200c17753440668b85c696.png

Retreated and defeated? I wouldn’t say the Ukrainians are defeated. One side is advancing and one side is retreating. Guess which is which? 

😂

They never tried to take Kyiv?

You have been quoting this same map for weeks. Where are the massive territorial gains the Czar Putin thugs are taking? This was stuff they took early on. Now they have run out of steam. Poor resupply and leadership. Very low moral. No clear goals. Just throwing troops into a meat grinder with no care.

Its all going wrong. 

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2 minutes ago, Fanta said:

lol.. look at a map. The rest of your post … Why do you bother? If I want to hear about how incompetent the Russian occupiers are and how it is all just an indiscriminate attack targeting civilians I will search out the latest Zelenskyy video on MSM. You probably think the Avosteel fighters were evacuated and will soon be home in prisoner exchange with a ticker tape parade. Unless you have an opinion of your own or some facts and can discuss them without regurgitating propaganda don’t bother. 

Three months and you finally took Mariupol. Three months!

Its all going wrong aint it Fanta.

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5 hours ago, Fanta said:

Maybe because Russia doesn’t need them? If Russia was losing as many troops as is claimed, necessity would dictate a call up. Russia had added 12,000 or so to replace claimed losses of 40,000+.

Depends on what Russia’s objective is at the current time. They went from attacking across the entire Ukrainian from Kyiv to Odesa. Now it’s just a small part of Donbas. Keeping in mind as the attacker they can concentrate their forces at the point of attack. You need a lot less troops to do what Russia is now trying. So yes if you stop attacking on most of the front, you need a lot less troops. 

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35 minutes ago, Fanta said:

Pushed back from the outskirts of Kharkiv which they never tried to take. It was/is an artillery battle.

Really? Are you going to try and claim Russia didn’t try to take Kyiv next? Of course Russia tried to take Kharkiv, you don’t commit that many troops to not take an objective. Lobbing a few shells doesn’t automatically make it an artillery battle. In Donbas yes, Kharkiv not so much. Battle would imply an objective to occupy. That’s not what Russia is doing in Kharkiv. 

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7 minutes ago, EdwardV said:

Depends on what Russia’s objective is at the current time

Kyiv was the main initial objective but that fell flat on it’s face. The Russian’s stated objective has always been Donbas. Taking the land bridge from Crimea to Donbas was necessary. Odessa has yet to be the focus of a sustained Russian assault. And Russia still needs to hold and defend any taken territory and that requires substantial troop numbers on a 300+ km front. I don’t know if Russia ever had enough forces to advance in a line from the south East to sweep up through Ukraine. History says not but was that actually it’s plan of attack? So we can agree that the Russian losses aren’t as large as MSM claims? 

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18 minutes ago, EdwardV said:

Really? Are you going to try and claim Russia didn’t try to take Kyiv next? Of course Russia tried to take Kharkiv, you don’t commit that many troops to not take an objective. Lobbing a few shells doesn’t automatically make it an artillery battle. In Donbas yes, Kharkiv not so much. Battle would imply an objective to occupy. That’s not what Russia is doing in Kharkiv. 

Do you have a link about the Russian troop numbers deployed outside Kharkiv? 
Lots of Ukrainian troops were sent there and consequently could not be sent to reinforce Donbas. The Russians “pounded” Kharkiv for weeks but didn’t move in. 

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1 hour ago, Guphz said:

Take a look at your own map. It shows Russia pushed back to the east. Retreated and defeated everywhere else.

You think BBC News should be taken with a pinch of salt Haw-Haw but you're happy to post verification items from their sources there's a word for people like you but I won't post it here.

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1 hour ago, Guphz said:

You seem to have forgotten that Russia was pushed back from the rest of Ukraine. Their gains are extremely small compared to the sacrifices they had to make and the losses they had to take.

Russia is indeed losing massive amounts of troops and equipment, and the problem is that they can't easily replace them because not only would they have to actually declare war, but it also takes time to train new troops.

Fighting in urban areas is perfectly legitimate. Turning entire cities into rubble is not. But Russian forces are so amateurish and inept that they keep being destroyed in direct combat.

They shat themselves thinking they might have to fight hand to hand combat in the tunnels and cellars of the steelworks Guphz and they didn't have the skill and bottle to enter. What's the line " Pay peanuts you'll get Monkeys "

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1 hour ago, Fanta said:

So we can agree that the Russian losses aren’t as large as MSM claims?

Depends on what that claim is, wouldn’t you say? As you correctly point out, that number is all over the place. Clearly the Russian number is absurd. And the Ukrainian claim is no doubt too high. So what is the number of KIA? 20K? 15K, 10K? We can only guess. 

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1 hour ago, Fanta said:

Do you have a link about the Russian troop numbers deployed outside Kharkiv? 
Lots of Ukrainian troops were sent there and consequently could not be sent to reinforce Donbas. The Russians “pounded” Kharkiv for weeks but didn’t move in. 

It’s not like they didn’t try and take Kharkiv. They fact they couldn’t enter the city wasn’t for lack of trying. The very fact you point out lots of troops were sent there and couldn’t be to Donbas (the actual objective hahaha), argues against your point. 
 

If Donbas was the actual objective day one, the Russians sure do have a funny way of progressing a war. Nothing like blowing out some 20% of your total force on a feint. 

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2 hours ago, Fanta said:

Pushed back from the outskirts of Kharkiv which they never tried to take. It was/is an artillery battle. The Russians are still there In Ukrainian territory that is controlled by Russia. See the color scale for who controls what….. 
Also see the red arrows. And the purple ones? Guess which is who. And they are going to Donbas. 
FB9E5C0F-F457-478D-8BAF-31F94DA8548F.thumb.png.c5670c0baf200c17753440668b85c696.png

Retreated and defeated? I wouldn’t say the Ukrainians are defeated. One side is advancing and one side is retreating. Guess which is which? 

 Kharkiv which they never tried to take🤣

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Flakpanzers on the way (well in july):

Ukraine will receive 15 anti-aircraft "Gepard" tanks from Germany in July, a German Defense Ministry spokesperson said Friday. Included with the arms delivery will be training support by the German Armed Forces and the provision of nearly 60,000 rounds of ammunition, Germany's dpa news agency reported. The tank would be especially useful for Ukrainian forces, as it was designed to counter armored attack helicopters, such as the Soviet-Russian Mil Mi-24.

https://amp.dw.com/en/germany-to-deliver-15-gepard-tanks-to-ukraine-in-july/a-61880311

The last I read Germany is planning to give Ukraine about 50 of them. Since they need to be refurbished prior to delivery, it makes sense to deliver them in small batches. Of course the troops need to still be trained, hence the July date.

The Flakpanzers help (massively) fill an important need. The airspace near the front line is soon to get very dangerous for low flying aircraft. Now the west just needs to figure out how to get Ukraine more mid level anti aircraft missiles. I’m hearing some rumors of a Norwegian system being offered. 

 

 

 

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3 hours ago, Fanta said:

Pushed back from the outskirts of Kharkiv which they never tried to take.

Ah yes. It was just a feint! Another one! Just like the massive troop movement towards Kyiv! And the riot police being deployed to Kyiv because they expected the capital to fall within a couple of days or less!

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It was/is an artillery battle. The Russians are still there In Ukrainian territory that is controlled by Russia. See the color scale for who controls what….. 

 

Look, you are just going on about irrelevant things. The fact is that Russia has been pushed back all over Ukraine. They have lost an insane amount of troops and equipment for the small gains that they do have.

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3 hours ago, Fanta said:

lol.. look at a map. The rest of your post … Why do you bother? If I want to hear about how incompetent the Russian occupiers are and how it is all just an indiscriminate attack targeting civilians I will search out the latest Zelenskyy video on MSM. You probably think the Avosteel fighters were evacuated and will soon be home in prisoner exchange with a ticker tape parade. Unless you have an opinion of your own or some facts and can discuss them without regurgitating propaganda don’t bother. 

So you are denying that they were attacking Kyiv? Indeed, TikTok model Kadyrov was threatening Kyiv to surrender because Kadyrovites would enter the city in a few hours! That was a couple of days into the war.

I have no idea what you are talking about regarding the Azovstal fighters.

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