News Forum - Ukraine’s Zelensky defies Russia’s ultimatum to lay down weapons

[Fanta]

6 minutes ago, EdwardV said:

Nothing says brotherly love and caring like the stationing of Chechen troops in your town

The Chechens have experience on living in the rubble. I agree that nothing good can come of this. 

[oldschooler]

5 minutes ago, EdwardV said:

Nothing says brotherly love and caring like the stationing of Chechen troops in your town:

The cousin of Chechen leader Ramzan Kadyrov was deployed to Mariupol as a part of Russia’s push to end the months-long resistance holed up in the Azovstal steel plant, the U.K.’s defense ministry said Wednesday.

"In attempting to overcome Ukrainian resistance, Russia has made significant use of axillary personnel. This includes a deployment of Chechen forces, likely consisting of several thousand fighters primarily concentrated in the Mariupol and Luhansk sectors," 

https://news.yahoo.com/russia-ukraine-war-cousin-chechen-172558487.html
 

Nothing good can come from this. 

Plus press ganging all capable local males aged 16-60 …..they’re all hiding in basements while the women operate the businesses even car repair ! Wrecking social cohesion & Chechen Terror Troops is hardly conducive to post- war “ absorption “.

[oldschooler]

30 minutes ago, Fanta said:

My apologies for not being clear and I should never have gone near such a sensitive issue as war crimes. Militia, guerrillas, partisans, saboteurs, spies - call them what you like. My point is that they are active and that the common assumption  that every male civilian death is the death of an innocent non-combatant and therefore a war crime is either naive or disingenuous.

Agreed. That makes clear your subject thoughts in rational manner.

Although, self-defense aside, the invader execution of such (justified) categories, when coming from the invaded population, constitutes war crime atrocities.  

[oldschooler]

10 minutes ago, Fanta said:

The Chechens have experience on living in the rubble. I agree that nothing good can come of this. 

These of course are turncoat traitor Chechens m, living “high on the hog” in Chechnya, on Putins payroll, making a business from state- sponsored murder-torture -rape of their own people, moving willingly & joyfully no doubt to abusing Ukrainians.

Many will be outright psychopathic gunmen enjoying their evil trade.  

[Fanta]

3 minutes ago, oldschooler said:

These of course are turncoat traitor Chechens m, living “high on the hog” in Chechnya, on Putins payroll, making a business from state- sponsored murder-torture -rape of their own people, moving willingly & joyfully no doubt to abusing Ukrainians.

Many will be outright psychopathic gunmen enjoying their evil trade.  

Not real big on them eh? I went off them after that cinema hostage thing in Moscow. In my book there are limits to expressing resistance. 

[vlad]

7 hours ago, Fanta said:

held accountable? as in actually punished? You are so precious. 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_war_crimes

This is the first Murderer on trial. No one from Russia helped him and he was left on his own.

 

[vlad]

2 hours ago, Fanta said:

imo, Ukraine set the mines before the war started to slow or stop a Russian naval invasion. You believe Russia did it AFTER they already controlled the Azov Sea and they also risked enemy fire to lay some close to shore at Odessa. For what?  Even the TAT of Ukraine wouldn’t be bold enough to add in Black Sea cruises to their estimated tourism totals. If you are not Russian authorized to be in the Black Sea you’ll be swimming home.
Forget the mines, how are any transport ships even supposed to get through a Russian sea blockade to  access the ports let alone ship goods out ?
imo, believing that Ukraine didn’t deploy the sea mines is the same as saying they don’t use land mines - great for the “nice guys don’t use mines” story that any Princess Di fan holds dear to their heart but not based in the realities of wartime defense. I’d be sowing those things like Ukrainian corn seeds if it was my port. 

Russia bad, Ukraine good - we can agree on that. 

Who are the good guys and the bad guys Haw-Haw one side fights to survive the other flattens city's kills, civilians, and is now being proved to have committed war crimes? who side are you on the good guys or the baddies. 

[Transam]

35 minutes ago, vlad said:

Who are the good guys and the bad guys Haw-Haw one side fights to survive the other flattens city's kills, civilians, and is now being proved to have committed war crimes? who side are you on the good guys or the baddies. 

A good question, but I doubt you will get a straight answer....

[Fester]

On 5/18/2022 at 12:17 PM, Fanta said:

That’s a bummer if Ukraine doesn’t agree to let the territories go (if only for a short while). Ukraine could do with a breather to build their military up so they can later go back to kick the Kremlin Krew all the way back to Moscow. 

If only for a short while? 

[Fester]

8 hours ago, Fanta said:

Why would Russia lay the mines if Ukraine had no ships? This is the same Ukrainian Navy that scuttled their flagship frigate in port. 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/ukraine-navy-frigate-sunk-mykolaiv-b2029108.html

In other news: 
“Russia on Wednesday said it was using a new generation of powerful lasers in Ukraine to burn up drones, deploying some of Moscow's secret weapons to counter a flood of Western arms.”

Zelenskky, as usual didn’t have a good thing to say about the Russians and called the lasers wonder weapons.

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russia-touts-new-generation-blinding-laser-weapons-2022-05-18/

Navies don't use frigates to lay mines, Haw Haw. 

[Fanta]

34 minutes ago, Fester said:

Navies don't use frigates to lay mines, Haw Haw. 

Really, Captain Binghamton? 

“Mines may be placed by aircraft, ships, submarines, or individual swimmers and boatmen.”

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naval_mine 

[Fester]

16 minutes ago, Fanta said:

Really, Captain Binghamton? 

“Mines may be placed by aircraft, ships, submarines, or individual swimmers and boatmen.”

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naval_mine 

Yes, really. Frigates are not employed for minelaying - waste of resource. In the case of surface ships, this task is generally carried out by dedicated  minelayers or other smaller converted types of vessel.

It is more likely that any mines drifting off southern Ukraine have been set by Russia because (1) they have the capability (especially from Kilo class subs) and (2) because they are the dominant navy in the area and can pretty much do what they want. Of course, Russian vessels of any size coming too close to the coast near Snake Island or Odessa run the risk of destruction by anti-ship missiles from shore, as we have already seen.

https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/2022/03/opinion-is-there-a-serious-sea-mine-threat-in-the-black-sea/

 

 

[IneptoCracy]

Fanta you are correct and even dolphins can be trained to lay mines.

https://www.forces.net/news/dolphins-defence-how-military-uses-marine-mammals

[oldschooler]

4 hours ago, Fanta said:

Not real big on them eh? I went off them after that cinema hostage thing in Moscow. In my book there are limits to expressing resistance. 

Russia should have just let them go independent in 91. Like all other Muslim stans….. 

[Fester]

29 minutes ago, IneptoCracy said:

Fanta you are correct and even dolphins can be trained to lay mines.

https://www.forces.net/news/dolphins-defence-how-military-uses-marine-mammals

Fail. Read your own link. Dolphins can be trained to locate mines - not lay them.

Russia keeps some near Crimea. Fanta is incorrect yet again so also gets an F and remains The Weakest Link.

Goodbye.

 

[Fanta]

 

“Russia’s defence ministry said 771 Ukrainian fighters from the Azovstal steelworks in Mariupol had surrendered in the last 24 hours, taking the total to 1,730, RIA reported on Thursday. The ministry said 80 of the fighters were wounded.”

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/5/19/russia-ukraine-war-list-of-key-events-day-85

“Ukrainian officials have estimated that about 2,000 of their troops are inside the plant along with the civilians sheltering in the facility's underground tunnels. Arestovic said the Ukrainian forces were trying to counter the new attacks”

https://www.npr.org/2022/04/23/1094471660/ukraine-russia-mariupol-steel-plant

That was in April. I assume Arestovic refers to the Ukrainian presidential advisor of the same name.

Apparently there are some senior level Avoz guys still underground. So it seems as if the Russians may not be lying after all. Ukraine remains silent on the numbers in this “special evacuation”.

 

[Rookiescot]

5 hours ago, Fanta said:

The Russians must be lulling them into a false sense of security by providing food, medical care, evacuation and the necessities of life. Why they don’t just string up the barbed wire and leave them to eat the grass or worse is beyond me. 
EDIT: the last sentence contains a hefty dose of sarcasm. 

Who took away their food, medical care and necessities of life? Why do they need evacuation?

[Fanta]

12 minutes ago, Fester said:

Fanta is incorrect yet again

A frigate is not a ship? And you quoted me out of context as I didn’t claim that the frigate was used for deploying mines. Your posts are a consistent waste of space and will be ignored. 

[Transam]

You have the front to call Rookie a troll when your whole agenda here is trolling the subject...

Gawd 'elp us.....

[birdman]

33 minutes ago, Fester said:

Fail. Read your own link. Dolphins can be trained to locate mines - not lay them

Dolphins also have been trained to place mines on the hull of ships,the mines can be

activated by either remote or timers.

[Fester]

19 minutes ago, Fanta said:

A frigate is not a ship? And you quoted me out of context as I didn’t claim that the frigate was used for deploying mines. Your posts are a consistent waste of space and will be ignored. 

I'm sorry if I embarrassed you. 

[Fester]

5 minutes ago, birdman said:

Dolphins also have been trained to place mines on the hull of ships,the mines can be

activated by either remote or timers.

Different type of mine completely. Fly away Peter (or Paul).

[Marble-eye]

6 minutes ago, birdman said:

Dolphins also have been trained to place mines on the hull of ships,the mines can be

activated by either remote or timers.

Are you spreading disinformation on porpoise?

[Chatogaster]

35 minutes ago, Fester said:

Fail. Read your own link. Dolphins can be trained to locate mines - not lay them.

Russia keeps some near Crimea. Fanta is incorrect yet again so also gets an F and remains The Weakest Link.

Goodbye.

 

When I read your comment, my first impression was surprise: if they can be trained to detect explosives, training them to plant explosives is the obvious next (or previous) step. Surely they can (and have been used to) do both?

My first attempt (the only one needed) was opening the link you re-used to suggest that IneptoCracy didn't read it, by claiming it contains a proof that dolphins cannot be trained to lay explosives. It contains the sentence "Baranets says Soviet combat dolphins were trained to plant explosives on enemy vessels and could detect abandoned torpedoes and sunken ships in the Black Sea.".

I wouldn't call that proof that dolphins can do both (after all, it's just one source in which somebody says something), but it is proof that your disproof is incorrect. 

If you're serious about (dis)proving something, have the decency to be a bit more thorough and at the very least fully read your referenced source(s). Attempts like this (yours is not unique, sigh...) are pitiful.
 

 

[EdwardV]

Seems Ukraine isn’t the only one sacking generals: 

Moscow over recent weeks has fired senior military commanders for failures in Russia's invasion of Ukraine. The U.K. Ministry of Defence pointed to Lt. Gen. Serhiy Kisel, whose forces failed to capture Ukraine's second-biggest city, Kharkiv. Also suspended was Vice Admiral Igor Osipov, who commanded the Black Sea Fleet until its flagship, the Moskva, was sunk in April. Valeriy Gerasimov, Russian Chief of the General Staff, "likely remains in his post," but it's unclear whether President Vladimir Putin retains confidence in him.

In an intelligence update, the British ministry predicted that Russia will face difficulty regaining the initiative in its war against Ukraine, because generals and other officials will want to seek cover by deferring to their superiors on key decisions. "Many officials involved in the invasion of Ukraine will likely be increasingly distracted by efforts to avoid personal culpability for Russia's operational setbacks," the Ministry of Defence said.

https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2022/05/19/russia-ukraine-live-updates.html

Of course the main difference is Russia runs their military in a top down decision model. It’s hard enough getting decisions out of mid level officers. It’s why so many colonels are dying, no one below them wants to make a decision. Therefore they are forced to the front. This just makes it worse.