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News Forum - Ukraine’s Zelensky defies Russia’s ultimatum to lay down weapons


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1 hour ago, oldschooler said:

Air sorties don’t win battles or take / hold ground. What air losses are there ? Russians must be getting hit in all those areas too

Armies cannot win battles without weapons and supplies. Ukraine’s oil refineries, fuel depots, manufacturing, supply & repair area are hit daily, bridges and railways are being destroyed to name the most obvious. Ukrainian is flying 5-10 sorties a day. 

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1 hour ago, oldschooler said:

Russian Morale, Numbers & Combat Effectiveness (effectiveMESS ?) just aren’t there for a decisive win here.  

And who told you all this? Obviously not the Russian media who tell the opposite. “Experts” are getting their info from the Ukrainian government and the US who have their own agenda for painting as bleak a picture as possible of Russia’s performance and capabilities. 

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36 minutes ago, oldschooler said:

Ukraine already videoed hitting Russian moving trucks with laser / spotter- guided howitzer strikes

They need to show some return on investment for all those expensive Western supplied weapons. Let’s hope it is enough to reverse the Russian offensive. 

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10 minutes ago, Fanta said:

Armies cannot win battles without weapons and supplies. Ukraine’s oil refineries, fuel depots, manufacturing, supply & repair area are hit daily, bridges and railways are being destroyed to name the most obvious. Ukrainian is flying 5-10 sorties a day. 

 

The Pentagon spokesperson, John Kirby, noted that, in the past, Russian forces have not had a good record of hitting what they were aiming at.“I would just remind you that their ability to target with precision has been less than advertised throughout this entire war. They are not good at precision strikes,” Kirby said, adding that the delivery of US and allied weapons was not seriously affected. “The flow into the region continues at an incredible pace, and the flow of materials from the region into Ukraine also continues every single day,” he said. “Those weapons, those systems, are getting into Ukrainian hands.”

https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2022/may/04/russian-airstrikes-target-western-arms-arriving-in-ukraine

Russia isn’t flying into the interior of Ukraine and doing precision strikes. They are mostly firing missiles from outside to hit static targets. While they have had success hitting buildings and bridges, for some strange reason the trains keep running. 

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4 minutes ago, Fanta said:

And who told you all this? Obviously not the Russian media who tell the opposite. “Experts” are getting their info from the Ukrainian government and the US who have their own agenda for painting as bleak a picture as possible of Russia’s performance and capabilities. 

Multiple Western Govt / Institute/ Expert / Military Sources…. Every Day.

They can’t all be lying & following same “ agenda”. 🤣😠.That would be Russian / Chinese Unfree behavior and,if by West, unproven “ conspiracy theory” nonsense.😡😉

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The war with Russia is entering “a protracted phase,” Ukrainian Defense Minister Oleksiy Reznikov said Tuesday, with Moscow’s troops now trying to take full control of the east and south of the country. “Russia is preparing for a long-term military operation,” Reznikov told European Union defense ministers and NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg. “The war is entering a protracted phase,” he added in the speech, the text of which was published on his Facebook page. According to Reznikov, Russian troops are currently building fortifications in the Zaporizhzhia and Kherson regions in order to “move to defense if necessary.”

https://www.timesofisrael.com/ukraine-says-russian-troops-bolstering-defenses-to-hold-gains-in-east-south/amp/

Doesn’t look like this is ending anytime soon. Any thought of a negotiated peace deal isn’t going to happen as long as Russia demands to hold onto area it’s taken in this invasion. I can’t see Ukraine agreeing to that, not long as weapons and funds are flowing. That’s not going to change as NATO is all in (particularly the eastern nations, Britain and the US). 
 

Kherson will become the hot spot once Donbas cools off. It will be a tough nut to crack, but it’s on the wrong side of the river. 

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10 minutes ago, EdwardV said:

The Pentagon spokesperson, John Kirby, noted that, in the past, Russian forces have not had a good record of hitting what they were aiming at.“I would just remind you that their ability to target with precision has been less than advertised throughout this entire war. They are not good at precision strikes,” Kirby said, adding that the delivery of US and allied weapons was not seriously affected. “The flow into the region continues at an incredible pace, and the flow of materials from the region into Ukraine also continues every single day,” he said. “Those weapons, those systems, are getting into Ukrainian hands.”

https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2022/may/04/russian-airstrikes-target-western-arms-arriving-in-ukraine

Russia isn’t flying into the interior of Ukraine and doing precision strikes. They are mostly firing missiles from outside to hit static targets. While they have had success hitting buildings and bridges, for some strange reason the trains keep running. 

And what question was he replying to? I’d guess something like “Russia is flying xxxx sorties a day. And hitting the equipment and ammo dumps where we send weapons.” “That doesn’t matter because Russia couldn’t hit anything anyway.”’ How does Russia sell all these weapons that cannot hit the side of a barn? And they launching dumb bombs from inside Russia? Are these brainless missiles also without a GPS and targeting system? Clearly not. 

Railways are running fine? Russia has been hitting railway junctions and power facilities for over a month. 

Pentagon spokesman John Kirby said Wednesday that Russian forces were "attempting to hit what we assess to be critical infrastructure targets out towards the West" in Ukraine including "electrical power, transportation hubs, that kind of thing”

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/05/04/europe/ukraine-russia-railways-intl/index.html

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/apr/25/russia-bombs-five-rail-stations-in-central-and-western-ukraine

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33 minutes ago, oldschooler said:

They can’t all be lying & following same “ agenda”. 🤣😠.That would be Russian / Chinese Unfree behavior and,if by West, unproven “ conspiracy theory” nonsense.

I didn’t say they were lying. Being prudent with the selected information given to them and presenting a biased agenda is far more realistic in a time of war. Your average US politician can’t be trusted from one day to the next and you believe they can be trusted now? Point in case - Afghanistan - “Money well spent and everything going so well that we can leave them to take care of themselves now.” Mission failed successfully. 

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8 minutes ago, EdwardV said:

Doesn’t look like this is ending anytime soon. Any thought of a negotiated peace deal isn’t going to happen as long as Russia demands to hold onto area it’s taken in this invasion

That’s a bummer if Ukraine doesn’t agree to let the territories go (if only for a short while). Ukraine could do with a breather to build their military up so they can later go back to kick the Kremlin Krew all the way back to Moscow. 

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2 minutes ago, Fanta said:

I didn’t say they were lying. Being prudent with the selected information given to them and presenting a biased agenda is far more realistic in a time to war. Your average US politician can’t be trusted from one day to the next and you they can be trusted now? Point in case - Afghanistan - “Money well spent and everything going so well that we can leave them to take care of themselves now.” Liars.  Mission failed successfully. 

I certainly don’t pay attention to politicians below Minister level or to MSM unless they have recognized expert or minister speaking directly. 
I refer only to such Western sources. 

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Just now, Fanta said:

That’s a bummer if Ukraine doesn’t agree to let the territories go (if only for a short while). Ukraine could do with a breather to build their military up so they can later go back to kick the Kremlin Krew all the way back to Moscow. 

Ukraine has no obvious need now to ever give up territory to Russia or give any breather for Russia to regroup.

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2 minutes ago, oldschooler said:

I certainly don’t pay attention to politicians below Minister level or to MSM unless they have recognized expert or minister speaking directly. 
I refer only to such Western sources

All dragged up from the bottom of the same bucket, only difference is their proximity to the surface.

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3 minutes ago, oldschooler said:

I certainly don’t pay attention to politicians below Minister level or to MSM unless they have recognized expert or minister speaking directly. 
I refer only to such Western sources. 

Speaking on a specific topic and withholding key information counts as “lying” to any rational person. I would never trust or listen again to such type.

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2 minutes ago, Fanta said:

All dragged up from the bottom of the same bucket, only difference is their proximity to the surface.

Now you really are talking nonsense …again. True certainly for all tyrannies but definitely NOT the West😡

Implying falsely that true accountable legitimate Western sources/ institutes/ former NATO commanders / analysts/ ministers are all “shit”. Just obvious Rubbish & sadly Unworthy of you.😩😠 

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7 minutes ago, Fanta said:

How does Russia sell all these weapons that cannot hit the side of a barn? And they launching dumb bombs from inside Russia? Are these brainless missiles also without a GPS and targeting system? Clearly not. 

A missile isn’t a dumb bomb, never said they were launching dumb bombs from inside Russia. How does Russia sell all those weapons? Easy they are cheap. Of course the missiles have GPS, it’s why some of them actually hit their targets. However you can’t set a GPS targeting system to hit a moving object. 
 

I’m not saying Russia isn’t degrading Ukraine’s ability to move supplies. However at the same time Russia isn’t going to do so in a major way without flying a whole lot of missions deep into Ukraine on a daily basis. Rail lines are pretty easy to fix, same with roads. Bridges not so much, but even they can be given more time. Ukraine is a big country with a lot of infrastructure and redundant built into the system. It will be into see how it plays out 

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56 minutes ago, Fanta said:

Armies cannot win battles without weapons and supplies. Ukraine’s oil refineries, fuel depots, manufacturing, supply & repair area are hit daily, bridges and railways are being destroyed to name the most obvious. Ukrainian is flying 5-10 sorties a day. 

Could you post links with your insider info...🤨

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This is a totally unnecessary tragic war that should never have taken place.  Both Putin and Zalensky need need their head examined perhaps on a pole.  And Nato needs to be disbanded if it continues unnecessary expansion.  It has become a wolf in sheep's clothing.

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21 hours ago, EdwardV said:

Do we actually know there were 4.5K defenders in Mariupol? We were told up to just a couple of days ago there was still 1K defenders left yet less than 300 came out

“Ministry spokesman Maj. Gen. Igor Konashenkov said Wednesday that a total of 959 Ukrainian soldiers, including 80 wounded, had laid down their arms and surrendered since May 16. “

It appears that the majority of them won’t see Ukraine again any time soon.

“Ukraine said it expects to carry out an exchange of Russian prisoners of war for the severely injured soldiers.”

https://edition.cnn.com/europe/live-news/russia-ukraine-war-news-05-18-22/index.html

 

 

 

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3 hours ago, billywillyjones said:

This is a totally unnecessary tragic war that should never have taken place.  Both Putin and Zalensky need need their head examined perhaps on a pole.  And Nato needs to be disbanded if it continues unnecessary expansion.  It has become a wolf in sheep's clothing.

Childish simplistic naive drivel attracting “ likes” from the usual anti -western pro- Russian ( western) crowd.

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24 minutes ago, oldschooler said:

Childish simplistic naive drivel attracting “ likes” from the usual anti -western pro- Russian ( western) crowd.

Not everyone hates everyone. 

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1 hour ago, Fanta said:

Ministry spokesman Maj. Gen. Igor Konashenkov said Wednesday that a total of 959 Ukrainian soldiers, including 80 wounded, had laid down their arms and surrendered since May 16. “

Mixed reports have emerged concerning the number of Ukrainian personnel that were evacuated from the plant upon its surrender, as early estimates put the figure between a few hundred and 1,000, Ukraine's military said.The latest figure comes as DPR’s own report from the previous day said: "256 Ukrainian militants had surrendered."

https://www.foxnews.com/world/russia-separatists-900-ukrainian-troops-surrendered-azovstal.amp
 

I’m guessing the larger number sounds better so it got changed. You have to love authoritarian governments. Every number is subject to change depending on whether it makes them look better or not. 

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The pivotal Nordic countries of Finland and Sweden formally applied to join the North Atlantic Treaty Organization Wednesday, amid Russia's continuing invasion of Ukraine. NATO Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg told reporters that the treaty organization had formally accepted the applications, which have been in development over the past week.

https://www.foxnews.com/world/finland-sweden-official-applications-nato-russia-ukraine.amp

Its getting harder to find anything that hasn’t backfired on Putin concerning the invasion. The original excuse was to keep NATO from Russia’s border, well now they have 800 more miles of it. It times you almost have to wonder if he’s working for Russia or NATO?  

 

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8 hours ago, Fanta said:

They need to show some return on investment for all those expensive Western supplied weapons. Let’s hope it is enough to reverse the Russian offensive. 

That is a very interesting opinion,

Some people see this war as something that was bound to happen sooner

or later.

Maybe the West(i call them this for this purpose)is actually happy the fight is contained

where it is.

So is Russia?

Sure it does cost a lot of money and lives but it happens far away from home for most people.

It looks like Putin is getting his xss kicked but the fight is not over yet. Money is pouring into the Ukraine and so are weapons.It would be a lot more costly for all parties except the Ukraine of course if the fight got extended into other countries.

I do not think Putin has the balls or the manpower to go into any other country.If he does NATO will quickly send in their air force and wipe out the Russian army.

What options does Putin have? Not many i think.As long as the fighting stays where it is no one will consider nukes.

After the war the Ukraine will receive massive support from the EU and the US to rebuild the country and of course they will try to make Russia pay for it.

In the end it will be viewed as one of the better options.I truly feel for the Ukrainian people who did not ask for this terrible tragedy to happen to them.

I think the West is as much to blame for this as is Putin.

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52 minutes ago, birdman said:

That is a very interesting opinion,

Some people see this war as something that was bound to happen sooner

or later.

Maybe the West(i call them this for this purpose)is actually happy the fight is contained

where it is.

So is Russia?

Sure it does cost a lot of money and lives but it happens far away from home for most people.

It looks like Putin is getting his xss kicked but the fight is not over yet. Money is pouring into the Ukraine and so are weapons.It would be a lot more costly for all parties except the Ukraine of course if the fight got extended into other countries.

I do not think Putin has the balls or the manpower to go into any other country.If he does NATO will quickly send in their air force and wipe out the Russian army.

What options does Putin have? Not many i think.As long as the fighting stays where it is no one will consider nukes.

After the war the Ukraine will receive massive support from the EU and the US to rebuild the country and of course they will try to make Russia pay for it.

In the end it will be viewed as one of the better options.I truly feel for the Ukrainian people who did not ask for this terrible tragedy to happen to them.

I think the West is as much to blame for this as is Putin.

Like a runaway train on a spur line......going well then crashed at the end.

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