News Forum - Ukraine’s Zelensky defies Russia’s ultimatum to lay down weapons

[Fanta]

Zelenskky has finally had to admit the cavalry aren’t coming to Mariupol. He now wants a POW swap to free some of the Azostal soldiers, I cannot see how the talks are complex, even after Zelenskyy calls in his big brother. Zelenskky says “Pretty please?” Moscow says “nyet, Nyet, NYET.”  Seems pretty clear to me unless Russia are insisting on a one for one swap. 

May 13 (Reuters) - Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskiy on Friday said talks with Russia on getting wounded defenders out of the Azovstal plant in Mariupol were very complex, adding Kyiv was using influential intermediaries.

“Ukraine, saying there is no military solution to the standoff, has proposed evacuating 38 of the most severely wounded defenders. If Moscow allows them out, Kyiv says it will release a number of Russian prisoners of war.”

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ukraine-talks-with-russia-getting-defenders-out-azovstal-very-difficult-2022-05-13/

[Fanta]

10 hours ago, Grumpish said:

Got to be a hard sell on why the people they are liberating from fascists and neo-nazis keep sending their saviours back in body bags, as well..

Not at all. Russia will blame the fascists and neo Nazis in power for forcing the Ukrainian soldiers into battle causing regrettable casualties on both sides. Trot out a few 1,000 POWs and a million or more refugees fleeing Ukraine to Russia as proof of the power and also the kindness of Mother Russia. It is not a hard story to sell and reinforces Putins message that the rot is at the top in Ukraine. 

[EdwardV]

1 hour ago, Fanta said:

Nice Ukrainian supplied map and logic 

Of course encirclement is better than direct attack. Russia sure has moved move a lot of artillery into Donbas for an army that had no intention of fighting there. Used Fed Ex to get it there overnight did they?

You act like the map is incorrect. Nice deflection. 

Planing to encircle and moving artillery to the front are not mutually exclusive of each other.  

[EdwardV]

 

"Ukraine is ready to return the bodies to the aggressor,” he said. Lyamzin said there were several refrigerator trains stationed in different regions across Ukraine where the bodies of Russian soldiers were being kept. Several hundred bodies were being stored at a facility on the outskirts of Kyiv filmed by Reuters.

https://news.yahoo.com/ukrainian-servicemen-load-bodies-russian-202220119.html

[Poop]

2 hours ago, Fanta said:

Not possible since Ukraine decided to fight the battles inside the cities. It’s a smart move to defend inside a urban environment where enemy tanks have limited visibility & movement.  And Ukraine gets to claim that civilians are being attacked. It’s a win win for Ukraine, except for the civilians - the cheapest cannon fodder.

Ukraine never had the chance to decide. Russia invaded them....

I am sure you feel all of Ukraine should have left so that Russia would face no resistance.

Am I am sure you feel that everyone in Ukraine can stay at your house while theirs is getting bombed.

The reality is some people have no where else to go and refuse to leave their property for Russian soldiers to loot. Hence your lies....

Get your facts straight and stop spouting nonsense... 

[Poop]

1 hour ago, Fanta said:

Zelenskky has finally had to admit the cavalry aren’t coming to Mariupol. He now wants a POW swap to free some of the Azostal soldiers, I cannot see how the talks are complex, even after Zelenskyy calls in his big brother. Zelenskky says “Pretty please?” Moscow says “nyet, Nyet, NYET.”  Seems pretty clear to me unless Russia are insisting on a one for one swap. 

May 13 (Reuters) - Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskiy on Friday said talks with Russia on getting wounded defenders out of the Azovstal plant in Mariupol were very complex, adding Kyiv was using influential intermediaries.

“Ukraine, saying there is no military solution to the standoff, has proposed evacuating 38 of the most severely wounded defenders. If Moscow allows them out, Kyiv says it will release a number of Russian prisoners of war.”

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ukraine-talks-with-russia-getting-defenders-out-azovstal-very-difficult-2022-05-13/

Putin is in surgery... You know the cancer you claim does not exist.

Why do you think he sits at the end of far tables?

Why do you think he has a puffy face?

Why do you think he looks like a sick old man with his blanket at the war parade?

Why do you think he missed his hockey game?

I know you cannot say anything bad about your love fest Putin but everyone else is aware that he is not well...

Why don't you show us a video of him in a judo match that is current?

Or do all you have is shots of him with is blanket at the parade

He feels so cold. Go warm him up, lol.

[Fanta]

33 minutes ago, EdwardV said:

You act like the map is incorrect. Nice deflection. 

Planing to encircle and moving artillery to the front are not mutually exclusive of each other

Ooh… you used that nasty word.. deflection. I always state my case, discuss and ,when appropriate, concede with Likes and Smiles. Deflection? Tut tut… you can do better than that.

You claimed that Russia had no intention to fight at Donbas which is clearly not the case. How about less preferred option? undoubtedly the case when encirclement doesn’t work. Worth noting is that Russian is dictating where the battlefield is. I also remember you claiming that Russia wasn’t trying a pincer type movement at Donbas but now it has yet to work you claim it was their plan all along. We will see. 

 

[Poop]

Looks healthy to me, rofl....

https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2022/03/01/17/54814779-10565749-image-a-1_1646155416859.jpg

https://nypost.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2022/05/putin-blanket-002-1.jpg?w=1024

https://www.nationalworld.com/jpim-static/image/2022/03/06/10/GettyImages-1238272145.jpg?width=640

[Fanta]

17 minutes ago, Poop said:

Or do all you have is shots of him with is blanket at the parade

lol.. every chair at that parade had a blanket.  If he sat on the blanket you would claim he had bowel cancer. Putin is 69 years old and you expect him to be in judo matches. That man lives rent free in your otherwise vacant head. You are weeks behind in your claims as we discussed them ages ago. I won’t embarrass you by asking for links to support your claims. Homework for you tonight is to go to the first posts and read them. And stop spouting your regurgitated rumors. 

[Poop]

You must have dementia just like Putin, cause you seem to forget all the nonsense you post, lol.

Why don't you prove that you did not say that?

Deleting your rubbish posts once they turn out to be lies is just not fair.

But that is how Russia plays. They are a mafia state who do not follow any rules and are war criminals.

And 69 is not old. 

But Putin looks like 100....

[EdwardV]

14 minutes ago, Fanta said:

I always state my case, discuss and ,when appropriate, concede with Likes and Smiles.

You did none of that. You dismiss the map with nothing more than stating it was Ukrainian. As if that was proof enough it was wrong. 

 

15 minutes ago, Fanta said:

You claimed that Russia had no intention to fight at Donbas which is clearly not the case.

I ever claimed that. I said they had no intention of doing a head first grind it out attack. Clearly the fact they planned to do a pincer in Donbas, if not three different options, is proof of that. 

[Fanta]

1 minute ago, Poop said:

Deleting your rubbish posts once they turn out to be lies is just not fair.

User cannot delete posts at a later date. How can I prove something that I didn’t say? lol… Stop stalling and go do your homework. 

[Fanta]

Seems like a surrender could be on the cards for the last of the Mariupol defenders. Of course this possibility is not even mentioned in most of the cheerleading MSM outlets. Perhaps Zelenskky is finally  getting the message that his willingness to sacrifice the trapped soldiers is not a good look, especially after the Russians have shown that people can be evacuated safely under a white flag despite claims to the contrary.

 

Deputy Prime Minister – Irina Vereshchuk

 

“The result may not satisfy everyone. But our task is to get our guys out. All. Alive,” “War is blood and tears. There are no miracles in war” “There are harsh realities. Therefore, only a sober and pragmatic approach works,” 

https://presscompa.com/vereshchuk-on-azovstal-negotiations-with-the-enemy-are-very-difficult-the-result-may-not-satisfy-everyone/

 

 

 

[Fanta]

9 minutes ago, EdwardV said:

You did none of that. You dismiss the map with nothing more than stating it was Ukrainian. As if that was proof enough it was wrong. 

I was referring to previous, not that post. Indeed I did dismiss it, perhaps unfairly. I should have been more specific. #3 encirclement is optimistic at best. A 200+ kilometer push out from existing lines turning east seems to be the stuff Ukrainian defenders wet dreams are made of. #2 less sticky and slightly more likely. #1 implies Russia is meeting an impenetrable hub  of resistance. I’d believe #1.5. The Battle of Donbas will slog on for at least another month yet. We will see.

[EdwardV]

11 minutes ago, Fanta said:

I should have been more specific. #3 encirclement is optimistic at best. A 200+ kilometer push out from existing lines turning east seems to be the stuff Ukrainian defenders wet dreams are made of. #2 less sticky and slightly more likely. #1 implies Russia is meeting an impenetrable hub  of resistance. I’d believe #1.5. The Battle of Donbas will slog on for at least another month yet. We will see.

Or a Russian wet dream, a dream regardless I agree. The #2 was actually tried. The Russians succeed in taking Izyum which was a critical victory and access over the river. Problem is they failed to breakout and the southern pincer never materialized. For #1 they still have to get over the river to flank. Either that or take the long way down from Izyum. Even if they succeed, they won’t trap a lot of troops. I think you are correct, it’s going to be a long hard slog. 

[EdwardV]

During his interview, Lukashenka repeatedly called for an end to the war in Ukraine while seeking to position Belarus as an intermediary rather than an active participant. “We categorically do not accept any war,” he stated. “We have done and are doing everything now so that there is not a war.

”The Minsk strongman’s efforts to distance himself from the conflict are the latest indication that Putin’s invasion is in danger of unraveling.

https://news.yahoo.com/belarus-dictator-putin-ukraine-invasion-110300999.html

Interesting to say the least. 

 

[Poop]

Putin has to pay his soldiers to die and threaten them with jail.

Ukraine soldiers volunteer to fight for freedom and their country.

Ukraine also has strong Intl. support with modern weapons while Russia's army falls apart. How many tanks does Putin have left? And how many has Ukraine captured...

Belarus is starting to realize the war is starting to turn and not in Putin's favor. Putin has lost and the longer this drags on the worse it will be for Russia and anyone aligned with them. Do they really want a pissed off Ukraine with a shitload of weapons as a neighbor?

The smart move, to stay in power, is to distance himself from Putin and go with the winner.

Putin or Russia, is not the winner....

 

 

[Fanta]

15 minutes ago, EdwardV said:

Interesting to say the least. 

Indeed. Lukashenka the lapdog might be worried about Poland’s apparent willingness to “defend” Western Ukraine and that his tin pot Army will be unwillingly dragged into it by it’s Made in Moscow leash. Putin obliquely mentioned Poland 3 or 4 times in his Victory Day speech (I don’t know if that is a typical Russian thing). Biden was in Poland last month and over 10,000 US soldiers are busy doing nothing there. Plus Poland are helping to deliver a lot of weapons into Western Ukraine. All the more reason for Putin to “liberate” Donbas, chalk it up as a win and go home for his much needed cancer treatment (lol).

[EdwardV]

8 minutes ago, Fanta said:

Putin obliquely mentioned Poland 3 or 4 times in his Victory Day speech (I don’t know if that is a typical Russian thing).

Interesting you point that out: 

Russian State Duma Deputy Oleg Morozov, using language Russia has sought to justify its bloody invasion of Ukraine, made the remark on his Telegram page, according to Russian state media. "By its statements about Russia as a 'cancer tumor' and about the 'indemnity' that we must pay to Ukraine, Poland encourages us to put it in first place in the queue for denazification after Ukraine," Morozov reportedly wrote. 

https://www.foxnews.com/world/russian-lawmaker-poland-next-in-line-denazification-after-ukraine

That 10K in US soldiers might not be doing much, but they do make up two armored brigades. Welcome depth to the Polish army for sure. 
 

You know I’ve always said Russia’s end game resides at the so called “Polish Gap”. 

 

[oldschooler]

4 hours ago, Fanta said:

Not possible since Ukraine decided to fight the battles inside the cities. It’s a smart move to defend inside a urban environment where enemy tanks have limited visibility & movement.  And Ukraine gets to claim that civilians are being attacked. It’s a win win for Ukraine, except for the civilians - the cheapest cannon fodder.

Nonsense. Ten million civilians left battle areas. That is a defeat for Ukraine, part of having their country Wrecked. Several million stayed. 5-6000 civilians died from their stay decision combined with Russian bombardment intended to move those millions out & destroy civilian infrastructure too, especially clearly targeted Schools & Hospitals for additional Terror / Service Denial factor. 

Any invaded country defends main cities if possible. If those are lost so is the country and the war. Mountainous Afghanistan an obvious exception where the captured cities acted as prisons to pin down the Russian invader. 

Entire state & leadership of Russia guilty of these filthy evil war crimes, targeting the defenseless old, women & CHILDREN,  including invasion itself & observed field troop atrocities. 

Burn in HELL Filthy Russian Murderers for your crimes against the KIDS alone.

 

[oldschooler]

5 minutes ago, EdwardV said:

Interesting you point that out: 

Russian State Duma Deputy Oleg Morozov, using language Russia has sought to justify its bloody invasion of Ukraine, made the remark on his Telegram page, according to Russian state media. "By its statements about Russia as a 'cancer tumor' and about the 'indemnity' that we must pay to Ukraine, Poland encourages us to put it in first place in the queue for denazification after Ukraine," Morozov reportedly wrote. 

https://www.foxnews.com/world/russian-lawmaker-poland-next-in-line-denazification-after-ukraine

That 10K in US soldiers might not be doing much, but they do make up two armored brigades. Welcome depth to the Polish army for sure. 
 

You know I’ve always said Russia’s end game resides at the so called “Polish Gap”. 

Russias “ end game” at this rate is in fact to DIE; from national suicidal implosion (hopefully) if or rather when these ruinous fake fascist  “victories” and ludicrous “ambitions” continue.  It’s clearly fascist nationalist terror- state Russia that need “ denazification” the most

[oldschooler]

25 minutes ago, Fanta said:

Indeed. Lukashenka the lapdog might be worried about Poland’s apparent willingness to “defend” Western Ukraine and that his tin pot Army will be unwillingly dragged into it by it’s Made in Moscow leash. Putin obliquely mentioned Poland 3 or 4 times in his Victory Day speech (I don’t know if that is a typical Russian thing). Biden was in Poland last month and over 10,000 US soldiers are busy doing nothing there. Plus Poland are helping to deliver a lot of weapons into Western Ukraine. All the more reason for Putin to “liberate” Donbas, chalk it up as a win and go home for his much needed cancer treatment (lol).

One Russian Boot in Poland and entire Russian European Military is Obliterated in 7-10 days. Putin then removed. Russian Regime Collapses.

It’s just the usual cheap empty stupid Russian threat nonsense which can be disregarded. Example : Finland & Sweden. Russia don’t remotely have any capability to touch NATO Lands. Certain Destruction for No Reward is Worst Bet for Russia. Hope they try it though

” Liberating” Donbass equally fantastic.

[Poop]

Interesting news. More and more are documenting the generals responsible for war crimes from Russia.

They will be on future interpol lists and if they ever leave Russia heading to Ukraine for trial.

Heck once Putin is gone Russia may just ship the ones responsible to Ukraine as a way of making amends.

The people who are making decisions in Russia may start to get the sense that they may be held accountable. If they are smart they should be very careful what they do....

Ukraine already is putting a captured soldier on trial for killing a civilian. That is going to send another strong message. Does not look good for the Russian war criminals and we likely will be seeing many pay in the future for the atrocities they are doing now.

 

 

[oldschooler]

1 hour ago, EdwardV said:

During his interview, Lukashenka repeatedly called for an end to the war in Ukraine while seeking to position Belarus as an intermediary rather than an active participant. “We categorically do not accept any war,” he stated. “We have done and are doing everything now so that there is not a war.

”The Minsk strongman’s efforts to distance himself from the conflict are the latest indication that Putin’s invasion is in danger of unraveling.

https://news.yahoo.com/belarus-dictator-putin-ukraine-invasion-110300999.html

Interesting to say the least. 

A mini-me Putin whose military have refused to invade Ukraine ( cue ridiculous “ neutral” speech) & which is good only for suppressing their own unarmed civilians who voted him OUT. Who cares what this blowhard fascist says ? 

[oldschooler]

3 minutes ago, Poop said:

Interesting news. More and more are documenting the generals responsible for war crimes from Russia.

They will be on future interpol lists and if they ever leave Russia heading to Ukraine for trial.

Heck once Putin is gone Russia may just ship the ones responsible to Ukraine as a way of making amends.

The people who are making decisions in Russia may start to get the sense that they may be held accountable. If they are smart they should be very careful what they do....

Ukraine already is putting a captured soldier on trial for killing a civilian. That is going to send another strong message. Does not look good for the Russian war criminals and we likely will be seeing many pay in the future for the atrocities they are doing now.

Too late already in that sense for entire Russian top leadership already fully implicated in clear war crimes. 
Yes we might hopefully see a Serbia- style wholesale handover of murdering leaders if a new govt. emerges.