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Russia v Ukraine - How This Is Going To End


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1 hour ago, snapdragon said:

The latest from western MSM is that the surrender of the Mariupol steel plant hold-outs, was some kind of Kiev negotiation to avoid war crimes. And now the press is full of perceived Russian ill-treatment of those who surrendered.

And I'm expected to believe that?  Suuurrrrreeeee............😁

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1 hour ago, Cabra said:

The Economist just did a piece on this very same topic. If anyone is interested in another perspective

https://www.facebook.com/100064455893534/posts/378603750964818/

I think there is only one thing that will end the conflict. It has to come from the US itself. If  Joe's rating drops down to 30 or below, there will be moves afoot to change track.

What will cause the slide in the ratings? Baby milk! Russia Gate! Gas (petrol) price rises. General inflation. Perceived loss of general support. Scrutiny of the 40 billion dollars. Monkey pox!

Don't think any insiders will do anything significant. There are a couple of voices; Rand Paul for one. But dissenting, or even questioning, voices are few. The is also the fear that the Republics will take some control later this year and Hunter's and dad's Ukraine involvement will be fully uncovered.

When the US says jump, or more likely, bend the knee, the war will end.

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50 minutes ago, snapdragon said:

When the US says jump, or more likely, bend the knee, the war will end.

The war ends when Putin decides. Either a quagmire develops and it will be too much to continue leading to withdrawal (years from now), or Putin succeeds in defeating Ukraine getting the territory he wants, or it ends through negotiation where Putin gets what he wants (namely the Donbas region) - just as negotiation ended the first Ukraine/Russian conflict in 2009. It doesn't matter who is president of the USA. Irrelevant.

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17 minutes ago, Cabra said:

The war ends when Putin decides. Either a quagmire develops and it will be too much to continue leading to withdrawal (years from now), or Putin succeeds in defeating Ukraine getting the territory he wants, or it ends through negotiation where Putin gets what he wants (namely the Donbas region) - just as negotiation ended the first Ukraine/Russian conflict in 2009. It doesn't matter who is president of the USA. Irrelevant.

You certainly see things different to me.

IMO, this is a US - Russia conflict, using the Ukraine as fodder.

Before this conflict ends, Ukraine will have no access to the Sea..

 

 

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19 minutes ago, snapdragon said:

You certainly see things different to me.

IMO, this is a US - Russia conflict, using the Ukraine as fodder.

Before this conflict ends, Ukraine will have no access to the Sea..

"A USA - Russia conflict"............🤒...........Oh well....🥴

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What a pile of Crap Snap your not keen on Yanks then I take it. Why don't you throw in the old Hillary or Obamacare you might as well as your not interested in this thread.

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1 hour ago, Cabra said:

The war ends when Putin decides. Either a quagmire develops and it will be too much to continue leading to withdrawal (years from now), or Putin succeeds in defeating Ukraine getting the territory he wants, or it ends through negotiation where Putin gets what he wants (namely the Donbas region) - just as negotiation ended the first Ukraine/Russian conflict in 2009. It doesn't matter who is president of the USA. Irrelevant.

Agree with the first bit but disagree with the last.

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5 hours ago, vlad said:

What a pile of Crap Snap your not keen on Yanks then I take it. Why don't you throw in the old Hillary or Obamacare you might as well as your not interested in this thread.

 

"A pile of crep" eh vlad.

Say what you think about the conflict and we can debate the matter.

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26 minutes ago, snapdragon said:

"A pile of crep" eh vlad.

Say what you think about the conflict and we can debate the matter.

Its Crap snapdragon not crep. Your only interested in blaming America for everything so no point debating with you.

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6 hours ago, snapdragon said:

You certainly see things different to me.

IMO, this is a US - Russia conflict, using the Ukraine as fodder.

Before this conflict ends, Ukraine will have no access to the Sea..

I think you are wrong but in that case, there can be no end. Ukraine has to have that access. 

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3 minutes ago, vlad said:

Its Crap snapdragon not crep. Your only interested in blaming America for everything so no point debating with you.

 

Thanks for putting me straight on the gramma Mr vlad.

I'm not blaming the US for everything. Just the Ukraine conflict; along with the far-right elements in the Ukraine, who have virtually taken control of the military and government. The UK, should also hang their head in shame.

The US is directly responsible for other stuff too, but that's for another thread.

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20 minutes ago, Fester said:

I think you are wrong but in that case, there can be no end. Ukraine has to have that access. 

The Ukraine is losing control of the south of the country. It is generally Russian speaking and the people strongly align with the Russians.

I think the Ukraine far-right elements in Ukraine made a massive miscalculation, when they were preparing to move into the breakaway regions. They thought that they would get NATO support. Which, to some degree they have, in terms of small weapons, intelligence and advice. But the regiments, north-west of the Donbass, can't get their hands on those weapons and are trapped with nowhere to run.

IMO, the US are stopping a settlement. For although they have succeeded in stopping the EU - Germany in particular  - continuing to receive Russian gas, they have not yet secured agreements to selling their hugely expensive fracking gas.

There is obviously far more to the conflict than gas. And each point deserves a reasoned debate.

Not least is Poland wanting to take back parts of their territory. I'm sure we will hear more on this soon.

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4 hours ago, snapdragon said:

The Ukraine is losing control of the south of the country. It is generally Russian speaking and the people strongly align with the Russians.

I think the Ukraine far-right elements in Ukraine made a massive miscalculation, when they were preparing to move into the breakaway regions. They thought that they would get NATO support. Which, to some degree they have, in terms of small weapons, intelligence and advice. But the regiments, north-west of the Donbass, can't get their hands on those weapons and are trapped with nowhere to run.

IMO, the US are stopping a settlement. For although they have succeeded in stopping the EU - Germany in particular  - continuing to receive Russian gas, they have not yet secured agreements to selling their hugely expensive fracking gas.

There is obviously far more to the conflict than gas. And each point deserves a reasoned debate.

Not least is Poland wanting to take back parts of their territory. I'm sure we will hear more on this soon.

Well I think that pretty much everything you just said there is baseless nonsense.

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I have consistently said/hoped that this will end by Russia annexing all territory from Crimea to the Donbas region and Ukraine accepting that in exchange for Odessa & peace.
If the West follows through partly with Zelenskyy’s desire to totally isolate Russia from global markets and to use confiscated (aka stolen) Russian assets to ostensibly rebuild Ukraine then Putin may have no choice but to conquer Ukraine in it’s entirety. And then it is a fight to the last Ukrainian.

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5 hours ago, Fester said:

Well I think that pretty much everything you just said there is baseless nonsense.

What is the matter with you people?

What particular aspect of the post do you not agree with? Say your stuff and we can debate the issues.

I think the truth is that you are watching too much BBC and CNN.  And believe what they spout out. They are giving a totally false narrative.

 

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44 minutes ago, Fanta said:

I have consistently said/hoped that this will end by Russia annexing all territory from Crimea to the Donbas region and Ukraine accepting that in exchange for Odessa & peace.
If the West follows through partly with Zelenskyy’s desire to totally isolate Russia from global markets and to use confiscated (aka stolen) Russian assets to ostensibly rebuild Ukraine then Putin may have no choice but to conquer Ukraine in it’s entirety. And then it is a fight to the last Ukrainian.

IMO the Russians are not interested in the 'whole' of Ukraine. To invade the west of the country would tie up hundreds of thousands of troops and commit to a war that would last years. The west are fllooding into these parts and TBH, my contacts inform me that once the coastal area is liberated, and a buffer zone created, they will hold it and protect the people from more Azov atrocities. They will leave the rest of Ukraine to be shared and looted by the western agencies.

Zelensky' hands are firmly tied in this conflict. He overplayed his hand, and must now take his lead from the west; US and UK primarily. These two are anti-Russian in the extreme, and are leading the world into very dark times.

NATO is simply the US in disguise. As much as I feel for the Ukraine people, Europe as a whole, and indeed much of the world will be plunged into chaos over this.

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The 1st Russian war criminal has been jailed for life for shooting an innocent civilian.

 

 

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4 hours ago, snapdragon said:

IMO the Russians are not interested in the 'whole' of Ukraine. To invade the west of the country would tie up hundreds of thousands of troops and commit to a war that would last years. The west are fllooding into these parts and TBH, my contacts inform me that once the coastal area is liberated, and a buffer zone created, they will hold it and protect the people from more Azov atrocities. They will leave the rest of Ukraine to be shared and looted by the western agencies.

Zelensky' hands are firmly tied in this conflict. He overplayed his hand, and must now take his lead from the west; US and UK primarily. These two are anti-Russian in the extreme, and are leading the world into very dark times.

NATO is simply the US in disguise. As much as I feel for the Ukraine people, Europe as a whole, and indeed much of the world will be plunged into chaos over this.

🤣............So nufink to do with Russia then.........🤣........Glad we got that cleared up.................🤓

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6 hours ago, Fanta said:

I have consistently said/hoped that this will end by Russia annexing all territory from Crimea to the Donbas region and Ukraine accepting that in exchange for Odessa & peace.
If the West follows through partly with Zelenskyy’s desire to totally isolate Russia from global markets and to use confiscated (aka stolen) Russian assets to ostensibly rebuild Ukraine then Putin may have no choice but to conquer Ukraine in it’s entirety. And then it is a fight to the last Ukrainian.

Consistent codswallop. Putin won't have that 'entirety' choice - he lost that possibility already.

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5 hours ago, snapdragon said:

What is the matter with you people?

What particular aspect of the post do you not agree with? Say your stuff and we can debate the issues.

I think the truth is that you are watching too much BBC and CNN.  And believe what they spout out. They are giving a totally false narrative.

 

I'm alright, Jack. I said all of your post was nonsense. I rarely watch BBC and never CNN.

The Ukraine is not losing control of the south of the country - pretty much stalemate right now - initial losses were rapid due to the amount of Russian forces in Crimea breaking the deal to stay there! The south is actually not majority Russian speaking and by the Ukrainian independence referendum the people there do not 'strongly' align with the Russians.

I think the Ukraine far-right elements in Ukraine made a massive miscalculation - you need to say how many and where if these actually exist at all!

But the regiments, north-west of the Donbass, can't get their hands on those weapons and are trapped with nowhere to run. Not according to the reports I see - you need to prove this.

IMO, the US are stopping a settlement. For although they have succeeded in stopping the EU - Germany in particular  - continuing to receive Russian gas, they have not yet secured agreements to selling their hugely expensive fracking gas. Rubbish - the US is now not an exporter!

There is obviously far more to the conflict than gas. And each point deserves a reasoned debate. Your score = 0 so far.

Not least is Poland wanting to take back parts of their territory. I'm sure we will hear more on this soon. We haven't heard any of this yet. Do tell?

 

 

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15 minutes ago, Fester said:

Consistent codswallop. Putin won't have that 'entirety' choice - he lost that possibility already.

Tell that to the people in Kherson at one end, Severodonetsk at the other and everybody in between. 4th month and Ukraine still hasn’t be able to break through a 300+km front line. 

1 hour ago, vlad said:

The 1st Russian war criminal has been jailed for life for shooting an innocent civilian

Why not give him 10 life sentences? Unless they march him outside and execute him the sentence is irrelevant. History tells us he will be back in Russia via a prisoner exchange inside a couple of years. At best Ukraine has a bargaining chip to secure the return of some of the Azov “evacuees”. 

https://casebook.icrc.org/case-study/eastern-ukraine-disputed-pow-status

 

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5 hours ago, snapdragon said:

IMO the Russians are not interested in the 'whole' of Ukraine. To invade the west of the country would tie up hundreds of thousands of troops and commit to a war that would last years. The west are fllooding into these parts and TBH, my contacts inform me that once the coastal area is liberated, and a buffer zone created, they will hold it and protect the people from more Azov atrocities. They will leave the rest of Ukraine to be shared and looted by the western agencies.

Zelensky' hands are firmly tied in this conflict. He overplayed his hand, and must now take his lead from the west; US and UK primarily. These two are anti-Russian in the extreme, and are leading the world into very dark times.

NATO is simply the US in disguise. As much as I feel for the Ukraine people, Europe as a whole, and indeed much of the world will be plunged into chaos over this.

Can't you see without your 'contacts'? 🤣

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3 minutes ago, Fanta said:

Tell that to the people in Kherson at one end, Severodonetsk at the other and everybody in between. 4th month and Ukraine still hasn’t be able to break through a 300+km front line. 

Why not give him 10 life sentences? Unless they march him outside and execute him the sentence is irrelevant. History tells us he will be back in Russia via a prisoner exchange inside a couple of years. At best Ukraine has a bargaining chip to secure the return of some of the Azov “evacuees”. 

https://casebook.icrc.org/case-study/eastern-ukraine-disputed-pow-status

That 300+km front line has only existed about a month and affects a small part of the whole country. 

That little creep is convicted and won't be going back unless Russia withdraws completely. 

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19 minutes ago, Fester said:

Can't you see without your 'contacts'? 🤣

Always difficult to 'see' and fathom what is going on.

The western MSM give a very lopsided view. The UK particularly, is spouting out absolute garbage through the mouths of Boris, Liz and Ben. The BBC  is not investigating anything truthful. That are spoon-fed nonsense and promote it to their watchers/listeners/readers as facts. Most of it is simply propaganda to demonize Russia.

Useful to have people - telling it how it is - on the ground; at the scene.

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