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Russia v Ukraine - How This Is Going To End


Pinetree
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5 minutes ago, dbrenn said:

Lavrov and Putin will never end up in the Hague - the Hague is a Western construct, and those outside the Western world see it as little more than a kangaroo court. It's a rude awakening, but the West has lost a lot of it's former influence after so many failed military excursions and botched invasions of its own. It isn't the global cop anymore. Nobody cares about what we think, and it's all our own fault for squandering our moral high ground. 

So yet another Deflection. Do you know where the Cruise Missiles that have destroyed an apartment block in Kyiv overnight came from? Another targeted civilian structure. non Combatants.

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6 minutes ago, dbrenn said:

Huh? Where did I say that? Re-read that posts where I describe war as the ultimate crime. All I'm trying to do is stay on topic as to where this horrid war will end.

Then why are you not calling for Czar Putin to withdraw his thugs?

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3 minutes ago, vlad said:

So yet another Deflection. Do you know where the Cruise Missiles that have destroyed an apartment block in Kyiv overnight came from? Another targeted civilian structure. non Combatants.

You don't know the meaning of the word deflection, although I'd say it's your favourite catchall word for people who disagree with you. And as to the news report, how can we believe one side or the other, when we don't have independent journalists on the ground to verify claims from one side of the other. This from CNN:

"The chief of Ukraine's national police force, Ihor Klymenko, said one person died and five were wounded in a Russian missile strike that hit a residential apartment block in Kyiv"

Ukraine says so. Who knows?

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1 minute ago, dbrenn said:

You don't know the meaning of the word deflection, although I'd say it's your favourite catchall word for people who disagree with you. And as to the news report, how can we believe one side or the other, when we don't have independent journalists on the ground to verify claims from one side of the other. This from CNN:

"The chief of Ukraine's national police force, Ihor Klymenko, said one person died and five were wounded in a Russian missile strike that hit a residential apartment block in Kyiv"

Ukraine says so. Who knows?

There are independent journalists on one side. Where are the independent journalists on the other side? The ones who cannot even call this a war without going to jail.

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5 minutes ago, dbrenn said:

And as to the news report, how can we believe one side or the other

Whatever you want to believe is entirely up to you, whether it be Kremlin propaganda, conspiracy sites or even the wonderful MSM.

But what we do know is that Russia invaded Ukraine and in the process killed, raped, committed more war crimes than I can swing a cat at and flattened cities to the point of being unrecognisable, this is what we know, do you agree and is this acceptable to you?

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To answer the question in the headline, How will it end? When there are no more people left to be killed in Ukraine, soldier or civilian. No one will be a winner. Both sides have lost.

The living Russian soldiers will have their homes to go back to in Russia and the Ukraine will be ash and rubble.

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1 hour ago, Fanta said:

You also destroy manufacturing facilities, bridges, railways, equipment dumps and military bases. All the above are fixed in position and open 24x7 to receive long range missiles. Fighters strafing convoys of supplies is less effective, potentially more expensive and unnecessary when Russia can use PGMs that they have allegedly been running out of for a few months now. 

You are such an expert on war. Truly we are lucky to have someone of your insightful knowledge among us.

So how does hitting a civilian residential building, hundreds of miles away from the front, reduce the Ukraines war capabilities? 

Now I know you. You will come back with some evidence free claim it was housing something or someone of importance.

But lets be clear here. Anyone or anything of importance is NOT in a tower block. They are well protected underground. 

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4 minutes ago, IneptoCracy said:

To answer the question in the headline, How will it end? When there are no more people left to be killed in Ukraine, soldier or civilian. No one will be a winner. Both sides have lost.

The living Russian soldiers will have their homes to go back to in Russia and the Ukraine will be ash and rubble.

Yeah right. Czar Putins war is becoming a joke. It has simply demonstrated how poor the Russian armed forces are.

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Russia targeting civilian buildings with missiles never made any sense to me. Why waste very expensive munitions on a target of no military value? Simple answer: Russia is not. Jamming systems employed by Ukraine (and presumably the US) are being used to block or overwhelm the GPS, satellite and radar signals used to control missiles with the intention of confusing them. This sometimes succeeds in diverting the missiles away from their intended military target. It could also be why we see missiles hitting targets of no military value and also landing unexploded. Russia employs similar mobile systems and has jammed Starlink satellites and electronic signals in Ukraine. These systems are in use during this war. Perhaps that is why Russia launched a barrage of missiles yesterday so that some would, and did, reach their intended military targets. Some went off target. HTH. 
https://www.timesofisrael.com/theyre-jamming-everything-secretive-electronic-warfare-shapes-war-in-ukraine/

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13 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

You are such an expert on war. 

Not at all. I take the time to think, use the net to find information & to learn things. You should try it.
btw: I answered your “apartments being targeted” query in my previous post. Glad to help.

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32 minutes ago, Fanta said:

Russia targeting civilian buildings with missiles never made any sense to me. Why waste very expensive munitions on a target of no military value? Simple answer: Russia is not. Jamming systems employed by Ukraine (and presumably the US) are being used to block or overwhelm the GPS, satellite and radar signals used to control missiles with the intention of confusing them. This sometimes succeeds in diverting the missiles away from their intended military target. It could also be why we see missiles hitting targets of no military value and also landing unexploded. Russia employs similar mobile systems and has jammed Starlink satellites and electronic signals in Ukraine. These systems are in use during this war. Perhaps that is why Russia launched a barrage of missiles yesterday so that some would, and did, reach their intended military targets. Some went off target. HTH. 
https://www.timesofisrael.com/theyre-jamming-everything-secretive-electronic-warfare-shapes-war-in-ukraine/

Nice conspiracy theory which explains away what you already know is the truth. 

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30 minutes ago, Fanta said:

Not at all. I take the time to think, use the net to find information & to learn things. You should try it.
btw: I answered your “apartments being targeted” query in my previous post. Glad to help.

Oh yeah the internet is full of helpful things like "Is there a bridge between Russia and the Crimea"?

You should give it a go sometime. 

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41 minutes ago, Fanta said:

Russia targeting civilian buildings with missiles never made any sense to me. Why waste very expensive munitions on a target of no military value? Simple answer: Russia is not. Jamming systems employed by Ukraine (and presumably the US) are being used to block or overwhelm the GPS, satellite and radar signals used to control missiles with the intention of confusing them. This sometimes succeeds in diverting the missiles away from their intended military target. It could also be why we see missiles hitting targets of no military value and also landing unexploded. Russia employs similar mobile systems and has jammed Starlink satellites and electronic signals in Ukraine. These systems are in use during this war. Perhaps that is why Russia launched a barrage of missiles yesterday so that some would, and did, reach their intended military targets. Some went off target. HTH. 
https://www.timesofisrael.com/theyre-jamming-everything-secretive-electronic-warfare-shapes-war-in-ukraine/

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10949493/Return-sender-Russian-missile-U-turns-smashes-troops-fired-malfunction.html#v-86061694645062469

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1 hour ago, dbrenn said:

You don't know the meaning of the word deflection, although I'd say it's your favourite catchall word for people who disagree with you. And as to the news report, how can we believe one side or the other, when we don't have independent journalists on the ground to verify claims from one side of the other. This from CNN:

"The chief of Ukraine's national police force, Ihor Klymenko, said one person died and five were wounded in a Russian missile strike that hit a residential apartment block in Kyiv"

Ukraine says so. Who knows?

Well dbrenn we have shown you how this room works your always shot down so you revert to the old blame game. What you are good at is deflecting the question. Before you try and swim with the big boy's i suggest you leave the training pond.  Come back when you have a 1,000 posts under your belt its called Experience which you lack.

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1 hour ago, Rookiescot said:

You are such an expert on war. Truly we are lucky to have someone of your insightful knowledge among us.

So how does hitting a civilian residential building, hundreds of miles away from the front, reduce the Ukraines war capabilities? 

Now I know you. You will come back with some evidence free claim it was housing something or someone of importance.

But lets be clear here. Anyone or anything of importance is NOT in a tower block. They are well protected underground. 

militaries on both sides use civilian infrastructure.

for example, in this video, the Ukrainian military is stationed in the gym of the school.

Do you have proof that this house didn't have something like that?

 

https://t.me/opersvodki/6134

 

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3 hours ago, Fanta said:

Russia seems to have localized air superiority for bombing attacks while missiles do the long range work. Why risk a plane when a missile will do the same job? Ukraine’s air defenses are not as feeble as you appear to think.

Localized air superiority? From the third biggest air force in the world? Talk about under performing. Why risk planes? If that’s the point, why send them up at all? You risk the planes to save lives of soldiers and progress the war faster. Oh and no it’s hardly the same job. MANPADs are easy to defeat, all you do is fly higher. The rest of Ukraine’s air defenses you destroy, shouldn’t be nearly as hard if it’s been since Russian know exactly how those systems work. Huge advantage. 

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3 hours ago, Fanta said:

You also destroy manufacturing facilities, bridges, railways, equipment dumps and military bases. All the above are fixed in position and open 24x7 to receive long range missiles. Fighters strafing convoys of supplies is less effective, potentially more expensive and unnecessary when Russia can use PGMs that they have allegedly been running out of for a few months now. 

How’s that working for Russia? Not well when we have stories about an almost complete lack of any interdiction of weapons and supplies (one of my past posts). Again it’s about saving Russian soldiers lives and progressing the war. Shocking to say the least 

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3 hours ago, Rookiescot said:

Oh yeah the internet is full of helpful things like "Is there a bridge between Russia and the Crimea"?

You should give it a go sometime. 

Confusion between “ land bridge” and “ sea bridge”. Term actually should be “ land corridor” 😉

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6 hours ago, EdwardV said:

Localized air superiority? From the third biggest air force in the world? Talk about under performing. Why risk planes? If that’s the point, why send them up at all? You risk the planes to save lives of soldiers and progress the war faster. Oh and no it’s hardly the same job. MANPADs are easy to defeat, all you do is fly higher. The rest of Ukraine’s air defenses you destroy, shouldn’t be nearly as hard if it’s been since Russian know exactly how those systems work. Huge advantage. 

You are choosing to ignore Ukraine’s 300’x S-300’s. Russia has stepped up attacks on military facilities. Even Ukraine confirms this. The planes are much like the tanks - derided and mocked for their perceived incorrect usage however the fact remains that Russia continues  winning despite the cries of some saying “You are doing it all wrong!” 

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6 hours ago, EdwardV said:

How’s that working for Russia? Not well when we have stories about an almost complete lack of any interdiction of weapons and supplies (one of my past posts). Again it’s about saving Russian soldiers lives and progressing the war. Shocking to say the least 

Be serious. Ukraine’s military losses are a closely guarded secret. For all we know 95% of delivered  Western weapons are destroyed before they get to the front. Or maybe 5% are destroyed before they get to the front. We don’t know. We do know that the supplied weapons are not enough to replace Ukraine’s losses let alone turn the tide. Waiting and hoping for Russia to tire itself out is not a choice. It is an expensive necessity for Ukraine. 

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55 minutes ago, Fanta said:

You are choosing to ignore Ukraine’s 300’x S-300’s. Russia has stepped up attacks on military facilities. Even Ukraine confirms this. The planes are much like the tanks - derided and mocked for their perceived incorrect usage however the fact remains that Russia continues  winning despite the cries of some saying “You are doing it all wrong!” 

You choose to pretend they even have 300x S-300s anymore. Derided air plane? No one does that. They might bash Russia’s use of its planes but not the planes themselves. The reason at this point Ukraine has any S-300s left is because Russia isn’t doing much suppression of enemy air defenses (SEAD). I have a feeling you definition of “winning” is a little more loose than mine. I don’t say Russia is losing, but winning ….

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1 minute ago, EdwardV said:

have a feeling you definition of “winning” is a little more loose than mine.

You must have seen some of the women I’ve “dated”.  

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8 hours ago, KRLMRX said:

militaries on both sides use civilian infrastructure.

for example, in this video, the Ukrainian military is stationed in the gym of the school.

Do you have proof that this house didn't have something like that?

https://t.me/opersvodki/6134

I dont need to prove soldiers are in a residential tower block in Kyiv. I didnt hit it with a missile.

Russia did. So either Russia proves it was full of military personnel or it is simply a terror attack.

One which you believe is justified.

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6 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

I dont need to prove soldiers are in a residential tower block in Kyiv. I didnt hit it with a missile.

Russia did. So either Russia proves it was full of military personnel or it is simply a terror attack.

One which you believe is justified.

You dismiss electronic counter measures as a conspiracy theory, ignore the documented proof of missile malfunctions, never give a thought to human error or bad intel, deny the existence of military resources stationed in or near residential buildings, demand 100% accuracy and instead choose to label every instance as a terror attack. Fanatical adherence to a questionable belief is rarely a good thing. Ask any “successful” suicide bomber - if you could.
In other news Russia claims to have evacuated 800 civilians from the Avov chemical plant at Sieverdonetsk after they were left behind by the UAF. Kyiv seemingly made no attempt to arrange a humanitarian corridor or ceasefire for the civilians’ safety. At least the civilians are safe. Until the next time retreating soldiers run for cover.

 

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