Russia v Ukraine - How This Is Going To End

[Thaidup]

On 3/16/2022 at 10:17 AM, Pinetree said:

My view.

After on going talks, Ukraine , as it has already done, will pledge never to join NATO or the EU. They will sign a None Aggression Pact, (good luck with that, remember how the last one panned out and the one before that ).  Russian Military  will withdraw. leaving behind in the border states a 'Security Force'. Ukraine will sign an exclusive trade deal with Russia/China, excluding most trade from the EU.  After 6 months, all sanctions will be removed and all friends again. After 12 months , Putin retires from public life to be replaced by another criminal lunatic in a different suit. 

Losers, most definitely the  westerns democracies, who will be shown to be clueless, toothless and politically and diplomatically incompetent. without the courage of their convictions. The US will fade into irrelevance, if it hasn't already. And of course Ukraine, who are the biggest losers in this farce. 

Winners,  China and North Korea, who see how much hot air is generated by democracies who then do nothing. Within 3 years,  Taiwan gets invaded. 

Its all rather  predictable and very depressing. 

Trump will be reelected.  Biden will still think he's still the President and also a flying Ewok . 

Max will win his second F1 title 

Tom Brady will get his eighth Super Bowl win and then retire. 

Chelsea football club will go bust ( good news).

Boris will trip over his own ego and break his silly neck. 

 Lets get this thread back on track. Chelsea fb  are very w@&e now, so they will never go broke.

[Fanta]

7 hours ago, oldschooler said:

It could of course never be held for long once the obsessed Russians threw everything they had at it, at vast cost, and leveled the place completely.

So Russia can take any city in Ukraine once they put their mind to it? The only “plan” proposed for Ukraine to win the war is that Russia will run out of weapons and men. That is a terrible plan.
Lately we have been seeing Russia increasing their use of artillery which reduces their own casualty rates while increasing Ukraine’s casualty rates. Russia chooses where and when they want to fight and then they ground and pound. Ukraine’s wunderwaffe and training centers are now increasingly being targeted. Russian logistics have improved and we haven’t seen a happy farmer stealing a Russian armored vehicle for months. Russia is becoming stronger on the battlefield, not weaker and the opposite is true for Ukraine. Does anybody have an idea as to how Ukraine can, at least, force this war into a stalemate?

[Thaidup]

55 minutes ago, Thaidup said:

 Lets get this thread back on track. Chelsea fb  are very w@&e now, so they will never go broke.

 

Does anyone else notice, that in the center of the photo and just a little right that there is a person there that is being completely ignored?

[Fanta]

4 minutes ago, Thaidup said:

Does anyone else notice, that in the center of the photo and just a little right that there is a person there that is being completely ignored?

I think you have your topics confused. What does a Muslim woman surrounded by flag waving approval seekers have to do with the war in Ukraine? 

[Thaidup]

LOL,  Why didn't they blur it out?

 

[Fanta]

14 minutes ago, Thaidup said:

LOL,  Why didn't they blur it out?

It is only by mistake that anything negative to Ukraine’s image as worthy of European integration comes out of Ukraine. Zelenskky has banned all political opposition parties, closed all TV channels & media outlets that do not broadcast only the government approved message of successful Ukrainian resistance leading to eventual victory, banned anything remotely Russian such as music, art & language, imprisoned opposition figures & journalists and repressed any voice of dissent. Hitler did the same. Putin does the same to a lesser degree. That is all perhaps understandable to some in a time of war. The question is after the war will Zelenskky continue to be authoritarian and directly oppress at least 20% of his own population and to deny their own roots? assuming he will still be in power and also have these people under his control. EU Membership = LOL.

[Rookiescot]

8 hours ago, KRLMRX said:

provide a quote and a link.  I have not met such an opinion of Stoltenberg.

NATO - Opinion: Speech by NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg at the Kultaranta talks, 12-Jun.-2022

But you already knew this.

[Rookiescot]

Well aren't the Czar Putin fanboys just as giddy as schoolgirls today after capturing a town they have been fighting in for 3 months.

 

[Thaidup]

1 hour ago, Fanta said:

It is only by mistake that anything negative to Ukraine’s image as worthy of European integration comes out of Ukraine. Zelenskky has banned all political opposition parties, closed all TV channels & media outlets that do not broadcast only the government approved message of successful Ukrainian resistance leading to eventual victory, banned anything remotely Russian such as music, art & language, imprisoned opposition figures & journalists and repressed any voice of dissent. Hitler did the same. Putin does the same to a lesser degree. That is all perhaps understandable to some in a time of war. The question is after the war will Zelenskky continue to be authoritarian and directly oppress at least 20% of his own population and to deny their own roots? assuming he will still be in power and also have these people under his control. EU Membership = LOL.

It simply boggles my mind Fanta, how can theses undemocratic actions still persist?

Oh with the help of the main stream media demonizing anything that is not pro Ukraine?

[Grumpish]

1 hour ago, Fanta said:

imprisoned opposition figures & journalists and repressed any voice of dissent. Hitler did the same.

As did did Josef Stalin, Mao Tse Tung, Pol Pot, amongst others. Including Vladimir Putin.

[Thaidup]

16 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

Well aren't the Czar Putin fanboys just as giddy as schoolgirls today after capturing a town they have been fighting in for 3 months.

Hey Rookie, You just reminded me of those areas that came up on 8chan as bio labs that where attacked, and then once demolished the Ruskies just dissapeared? why?

[Thaidup]

1 hour ago, Fanta said:

I think you have your topics confused. What does a Muslim woman surrounded by flag waving approval seekers have to do with the war in Ukraine? 

The original post.

It was a members thoughts on how things will end. How it ended up in the news section of the forum is beyond my meager comprehension. A copy of the authors subjects are listed below for a look at our leisure.

 

 

Trump will be reelected.  Biden will still think he's still the President and also a flying Ewok . 

Max will win his second F1 title 

Tom Brady will get his eighth Super Bowl win and then retire. 

Chelsea football club will go bust ( good news).

Boris will trip over his own ego and break his silly neck.

 

[Fanta]

50 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

Well aren't the Czar Putin fanboys just as giddy as schoolgirls today after capturing a town they have been fighting in for 3 months.

You are the only one talking about it, trollboy. Why don’t you play the tried and tested Ukrainian defeat excuse card? 

The co-ordinated withdrawal of the UAF from Sieverdonetsk represents another success in our ongoing plan to expend the enemy’s supply of artillery shells. We have forced the demoralized, battered, poorly-equipped and under strength Russian conscripts to leave their far away bunkers to meet their doom. Meanwhile we have conducted successful counter offensives overwhelming abandoned Russian defenses to capture tactically important milking sheds in other regions. The UAF have been ordered by our allies to repeat this strategic victory in Lysyschansk as we continue our glorious and continuous backwards surge towards our inevitable victory. Slava Ukrani! 

[Thaidup]

Judging by the map, the Ukraine Partisan fight in the North Is over now? Looks like everything is concentrated in the south east now.

https://storymaps.arcgis.com/stories/36a7f6a6f5a9448496de641cf64bd375

[Fanta]

5 hours ago, EdwardV said:

I think you are being generous with the term “city” at this point in time

In Russian (gorod) & Ukrainian (misto) the word for city and town is the same. Pre war population of Sieverodonetsk was 100,000+. I’d call that a city and the many western references to Sieverodonetsk and Lysychansk as “Twin Cities” echoes the same. If I was Chinese I’d call it a township. 

[EdwardV]

4 hours ago, Thaidup said:

83 Billion Worth of weapons left behind in Afghanistan?, Congress could have signed all of that over to Ukraine, Said just go and pick it up, it's all legally yours.

A wildly inaccurate number to say the least: 

“After more than 16 years of combat operations, DOD estimates that $7.12 billion of this equipment remains in Afghanistan in varying states of repair," Lodewick said.  "It is important to remember that the $7.12 billion figure cited in the Department’s recent report to Congress corresponds to ANDSF equipment and not U.S. military equipment used by our forces. 

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/us-abandoned-military-equipment-cost-afghanistan-taliban-takeover.amp
 

 

[EdwardV]

43 minutes ago, Fanta said:

In Russian (gorod) & Ukrainian (misto) the word for city and town is the same. Pre war population of Sieverodonetsk was 100,000+. I’d call that a city and the many western references to Sieverodonetsk and Lysychansk as “Twin Cities” echoes the same. If I was Chinese I’d call it a township. 

You missed the point entirely. There is no city left. I get why Russia is doing it, and if I were in their spot might do the same. It’s basically the only card they have left to play. However it’s brutal on the exact people and land he is supposed to be liberating. 

[EdwardV]

51 minutes ago, Thaidup said:

Judging by the map, the Ukraine Partisan fight in the North Is over now? Looks like everything is concentrated in the south east now.

Wouldn’t the fact the Russians are gone from the north, and are still in the south have something to do with that? Unless you have an unconventional definition of the term “Partisan” of course. 

[Fanta]

11 hours ago, Rookiescot said:

Quote the man in full.

He said it will be resolved through negotiations AFTER Russia has been defeated. 

He didn’t use the word defeat or even a euphemism for it. He emphasized the fact that Russia will end this war when Russia wants to end this war and peace negotiations come to fruition. A link to his speech in full in case you wish to refute that by quoting the gentleman as opposed to making it up as you go long. Try a new approach for a change.

“Surrender can provide peace. But as we have seen, the Ukrainians, they don’t accept peace at any price.”

https://www.nato.int/cps/fr/natohq/opinions_196300.htm?selectedLocale=en

 

[Thaidup]

25 minutes ago, EdwardV said:

A wildly inaccurate number to say the least: 

“After more than 16 years of combat operations, DOD estimates that $7.12 billion of this equipment remains in Afghanistan in varying states of repair," Lodewick said.  "It is important to remember that the $7.12 billion figure cited in the Department’s recent report to Congress corresponds to ANDSF equipment and not U.S. military equipment used by our forces. 

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/us-abandoned-military-equipment-cost-afghanistan-taliban-takeover.amp
 

The original statements at that time may have included costs of the bases etc, CNN states that Ukraine kept the helos in this report,

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/04/27/politics/afghan-weapons-left-behind/index.html

https://www.forbes.com/sites/adamandrzejewski/2021/08/23/staggering-costs--us-military-equipment-left-behind-in-afghanistan/?sh=64e1e4b741db

[Fanta]

5 minutes ago, EdwardV said:

You missed the point entirely. There is no city left. I get why Russia is doing it, and if I were in their spot might do the same. It’s basically the only card they have left to play. However it’s brutal on the exact people and land he is supposed to be liberating. 

Perhaps I did miss your obtuse point. Inserting the word NOW would have made it clearer. I disagree that remodeling cities is the only choice Russia has left as all other options have been exhausted. The UAF’s placement of military resources in these cities means these cities cannot be bypassed for fear of an attack from the rear.   Also demilitarizing Ukraine requires the total destruction or neutering of the UAF. Apart from landing paratroopers on top of Zelenskyy’s bunker what other choices does Russia have to achieve their stated goals? Russia is “liberating” mainly the pro Russian people of the Donetsk region from the <insert hyperbolic anti Nazi stuff here>.

[EdwardV]

14 minutes ago, Fanta said:

Surrender can provide peace. But as we have seen, the Ukrainians, they don’t accept peace at any price.”

You are trying make it seem like the NATO General secretary thinks Ukraine is an impediment to peace and that’s not what he said. In the Q&A portion is where you are quoting, here is the part before:

The question is what kind of peace? Because if Ukraine withdraw its forces and stop fighting, then Ukraine will cease to exist as an independent, sovereign nation in Europe. If President Putin stops fighting, then we’ll have peace. 

It’s a very lengthy answer and much to long to do it justice. Besides the fact he clearly lays out this is not a NATO war. He is just as clear it’s Ukraine’s decision, and that Russia is a threat to NATO. Therefore the west needs to support Ukraine. 

[EdwardV]

18 minutes ago, Fanta said:

Perhaps I did miss your obtuse point. Inserting the word NOW would have made it clearer. I disagree that remodeling cities is the only choice Russia has left as all other options have been exhausted. The UAF’s placement of military resources in these cities means these cities cannot be bypassed for fear of an attack from the rear.   Also demilitarizing Ukraine requires the total destruction or neutering of the UAF. 

Yes I could have been more clear, my bad. 
 

Wait do you disagree or agree? As for the UAF placing troops and fighting in the cities. That’s a method as old as time, and a very good one when needing to be on the defensive. Can’t blame them for that. Like I said, I would probably do the same in Russia’s position. The Ukrainian’s have destroyed too much of Russians army to do anything different. To be fair, Russia really never had a big enough army to do anything other than that method. Even so, they don’t call cities army killers for nothing. 

[Thaidup]

30 minutes ago, EdwardV said:

Wouldn’t the fact the Russians are gone from the north, and are still in the south have something to do with that? Unless you have an unconventional definition of the term “Partisan” of course. 

I posted the map about 2 weeks ago, The legend on the map had "Ukraine Partisan"  fighting in the North from Kiev, now the map shows nothing, is all I am noting. maybe they wiped the Ruskies out?

[Fanta]

2 hours ago, Thaidup said:

It simply boggles my mind Fanta, how can theses undemocratic actions still persist?

Oh with the help of the main stream media demonizing anything that is not pro Ukraine?

I guess it depends how you look at it. Ukraine has, for all intents and purposes, been at war with Russia for 8 years. Zelenskky was born in a pro Ukrainian part of Ukraine and likely views Russian influence as a cancer that needs to be removed. Assuming that is true, Putin’s recent actions have reinforced that belief and the war has given Ellenskyy the opportunity to start the cutting. The Russian foreign minister recently did everything but directly call Elenskyy and the West racists. With the West’s mounting condemnation of everything Russian there is more than a ring of truth to this. Anyone who denies that the West is at war with Russia in all aspects bar boots on the ground is in denial or blissfully ignorant. Russia’s leaders deserve condemnation themselves but not the majority of Russian people or their culture.