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Russia v Ukraine - How This Is Going To End


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21 minutes ago, astro said:

A Siberian labour camp should be adequate.

I see that the western guys are already trying on the clothes of the winner. But from what I see in the news, the current situation in this war is a kind of equality of forces of the both sides. Neither side can advance. So nobody can predict how this is going to end.

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On 4/23/2022 at 2:44 AM, Thaidup said:

Nope I am not saying that, "You are basically saying that Russia should be free to attack and perform genocide wherever and whenever they want to. But appeasement doesn't work with people like Hitler and Putin."

I am not saying that, I am saying every time the west sends weapons it prolongs the death and destruction and later on those weapons tend to be used against the west.

So West should NOT send any material to its Allies to defend against Tyrants ….. because somebody will get hurt later. Right got it 🤣🤣🤣 I can see that would have only a positive effect on these alliances…. apart from rendering them totally redundant ! 😩🤣😠😡and sending “ rape & destroy me at will” invitations to all Aggressors 🤣🤣

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1 hour ago, friendofthai said:

I see that the western guys are already trying on the clothes of the winner. But from what I see in the news, the current situation in this war is a kind of equality of forces of the both sides. Neither side can advance. So nobody can predict how this is going to end.

Forum really needs a “ confused” emoji like “ other” forum 😎👍

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10 hours ago, Poolie said:

You dont know the history of the Daily Mail? Surprising for a Brit....😀

Lord Rothermere was a friend of Benito Mussolini and Adolf Hitler, and directed the Mail's editorial stance towards them in the early 1930s.[64][65] Lord Rothermere took an extreme anti-Communist line, which led him to own an estate in Hungary to which he might escape to in case Britain was conquered by the Soviet Union.[66] Shortly after the Nazis scored their breakthrough in the Reichstag elections on 14 September 1930, winning 107 seats, Rothermere went to Munich to interview Hitler.[67] In an article published in Daily Mail on 24 September 1930, Rothemere wrote: "These young Germans have discovered, as I am glad to note that the young men and women of England are discovering, that is no good trusting the old politicians. Accordingly they have formed, as I should like to see our British youth form, a parliamentary party of their own...We can do nothing to check this movement [the Nazis] and I believe it would be a blunder for the British people to take up an attitude of hostility towards it".

Wiki.

All these people are long dead. And WW2 / Fascism all “ ancient history” as you like to dismissively say when such parallels made here.

Saying Daily Mail is presently fascist is like saying Germany / Italy / Japan still are. Things Change. Often for the better. 

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8 hours ago, vlad said:

I'm not posting on this thread as it's meaningless and just a platform for the appeasers. What has the US, China, Iran, etc got to do with this thread about Ukraine and Russia? Can I throw Obama care and Hillary into this thread?

1st Question: A Lot

2nd Question: No

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  • 4 weeks later...
On 4/24/2022 at 3:56 PM, snapdragon said:

This thread is about how the war will end. Not how and why it started.

But I'll answer the question. It is obvious why the war started; turn off the TV, and do some historical research.

Spoiler: It was Russia.

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On 4/24/2022 at 4:56 PM, snapdragon said:

The Ukraine vote in 2014, that didn't suit the US. The US instigated the overthrow of that government later that year.

The US didn't instigate anything. The Ukrainian people rose up against the president.

 

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The elephant in the room; NATO's expansion. 

NATO does not expand. Countries apply to join. And guess what, Putin just ensured that even more will apply to join.

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The constant shelling of the Donbas by Ukraine battalions; killing over 10,000 Ukrainians. The Ukrainian Government - greatly influenced by the US and the Azov regiments -  wanted the land but not the Russian speakers. The build up of up to 60,000 troops on the borders of the Donbas.

This is dishonest at best. There are about 15,000 deaths in total, about 50/50 on each side. Most of them armed combatants.

But get this: Why are they all dead? Because Russia invaded and started attacking.

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The legislation eliminating the Russian Language.

This is false. Russia is actually one of several protected minority languages that are required by law to be taught to Russian speakers.

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Ukraine and eastern Russia are extremely wealthy in minerals and naturals. Eastern Ukraine has fantastic soil, and is relied upon for it's annual grain production to feed much of Europe. 

Yes, this is one reason why imperialist Putin wanted to invade.

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Then the crunch. Pres P got wind of the impending invasion plans and struck first.

There was no impending invasion. Not only can Ukraine not invade its own country, but there were no plans to escalate in Donbas.

And even if there was, it was none of Russia's business.

 

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1 hour ago, Guphz said:

Spoiler: It was Russia.

Nonsense!

The US is the driving force behind all this. With the UK not far behind.

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1 hour ago, Guphz said:

There was no impending invasion. Not only can Ukraine not invade its own country, but there were no plans to escalate in Donbas.

And even if there was, it was none of Russia's business.

There certainly was. There Ukraine forces were building up on the edge of the Donbass. Russia was monitoring the situation closely and decided to strike first to avoid a big war.

Those Nazi battalions had been shelling civilians in the Donbas for many years.

Think you need to read up on some Ukraine history Guphz.

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I think someone needs to stop slavishly absorbing western press. In fact I think a lot of people need to. 😃

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, snapdragon said:

There certainly was. There Ukraine forces were building up on the edge of the Donbass. Russia was monitoring the situation closely and decided to strike first to avoid a big war.

No, there was not. Why on earth would Ukraine start building up forces there to take it when Russia was right there at their borders? Eight years of not building up for an all out assault, as they waited until Russia had tens of thousands of troops in battle ready positions on Ukraine's borders?

You don't even believe your own claims here. You can't possibly.

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Those Nazi battalions had been shelling civilians in the Donbas for many years.

Now you are misrepresenting the situation again. Deaths on both sides combined were about 15,000 or so. 50/50. The vast majority were soldiers, not civilians. But who started the invasion that caused all those deaths? Russia. Russia invaded Eastern Ukraine, and triggered the conflict which caused all those deaths.

Yeah, you could indeed say that Nazis have been shelling civilians. Russian Nazis.  

 

2 hours ago, snapdragon said:

Nonsense!

The US is the driving force behind all this. With the UK not far behind.

No, not really. The Ukrainian people made their choice. They held democratic election and showed that they want to turn towards Europe rather than Russia.

How were the US and UK the driving force? Did they force the Ukrainian people at gunpoint like Russia tried to do?

 

Edited by Guphz
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2 hours ago, Poolie said:

I think someone needs to stop slavishly absorbing western press. In fact I think a lot of people need to. 😃

I don't get most of my information here from the press at all.

Where are you getting yours?

Why are you making assumptions about how other people get their information anyway?

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9 hours ago, Guphz said:

Deaths on both sides combined were about 15,000 or so. 50/50. The vast majority were soldiers, not civilians.

This is utter nonsense Mr Guphz.

What is this 'sides' you are talking about? Earlier you asked why Ukraine should invade itself.

Since the illegitimate coup in 2014, there had been a systematic shelling of the breakaway regions to force the civilians out. They were Russian speakers, and many did leave their homes and go to Russia. The Ukraine military, and politics, are infiltrated with the far right. The wanted to control the Donbas region, but didn't want the people. Now many thousands of Ukraine soldiers are trapped. Soon forced to surrender.

They - the Ukraine government and military - thought the west would come galloping to their rescue. Although there are sanctions - that, incidentally, hurt the west far more that Russia - and the UK (especially) ramping up the war-talk, this is not going to happen in any meaningful way.

The military aid that the US has promised is unlikely to even get to the Ukraine military. The 50 billion is simply to boost the US weapon manufacturers and their undercover agencies. And it has to be paid for. The Ukrainians will be indebted to the US for many years.

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5 minutes ago, snapdragon said:

This is utter nonsense Mr Guphz.

What is this 'sides' you are talking about? Earlier you asked why Ukraine should invade itself.

Since the illegitimate coup in 2014, there had been a systematic shelling of the breakaway regions to force the civilians out. They were Russian speakers, and many did leave their homes and go to Russia. The Ukraine military, and politics, are infiltrated with the far right. The wanted to control the Donbas region, but didn't want the people. Now many thousands of Ukraine soldiers are trapped. Soon forced to surrender.

They - the Ukraine government and military - thought the west would come galloping to their rescue. Although there are sanctions - that, incidentally, hurt the west far more that Russia - and the UK (especially) ramping up the war-talk, this is not going to happen in any meaningful way.

The military aid that the US has promised is unlikely to even get to the Ukraine military. The 50 billion is simply to boost the US weapon manufacturers and their undercover agencies. And it has to be paid for. The Ukrainians will be indebted to the US for many years.

Sunbeam, it took the UK many years to pay back the USA, but if we didn't borrow from the USA the UK/EU would have been the German Empire.

There are times when freedom is more important than money, but it seems not to you, comrade....🥴 

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2 hours ago, Transam said:

Sunbeam, it took the UK many years to pay back the USA, but if we didn't borrow from the USA the UK/EU would have been the German Empire.

There are times when freedom is more important than money, but it seems not to you, comrade....🥴 

You can't see that it's the US that are pulling all the strings here? Or maybe you can, but are so besotted with the BBC that you can't research and see for yourself..

Freedom for whom? The US's version of it. Or the Azov view?

Is that how comrade is spelt?

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20 minutes ago, snapdragon said:

You can't see that it's the US that are pulling all the strings here? Or maybe you can, but are so besotted with the BBC that you can't research and see for yourself..

Freedom for whom? The US's version of it. Or the Azov view?

Is that how comrade is spelt?

Go read up on your history chap, it seems you know nothing, just have a problem with the USA..

Start with Winston Churchill's chats with the USA President of the time... 🥴

PS. Is Ukraine asking for International help, including the USA...?

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18 minutes ago, Transam said:

Go read up on your history chap, it seems you know nothing, just have a problem with the USA..

Start with Winston Churchill's chats with the USA President of the time... 🥴

PS. Is Ukraine asking for International help, including the USA...?

My history knowledge is sound Mr Transam.

Much of what we are told to believe is simply not true.

About Mr Churchill,

JFK,

Moon landings,

7/11,

Covid and the WHO,

The world banking system,

Ukraine/Russia conflict,

etc.

Sometimes it is worthwhile delving beyond the propaganda; look behind the curtain, think outside the box. I am curious, and like to seek things for myself. I also like the truth.

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5 minutes ago, snapdragon said:

My history knowledge is sound Mr Transam.

Much of what we are told to believe is simply not true.

About Mr Churchill,

JFK,

Moon landings,

7/11,

Covid and the WHO,

The world banking system,

Ukraine/Russia conflict,

etc.

Sometimes it is worthwhile delving beyond the propaganda; look behind the curtain, think outside the box. I am curious, and like to seek things for myself. I also like the truth.

Really, you just find stuff to suit "your" agenda, nothing else.

Answer me this, did the UK (Churchill) ask the USA for help during WW2 providing war materials etc which would be paid for over a period, as you purport USA helping is just a money making exercise.....?

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18 minutes ago, Transam said:

Really, you just find stuff to suit "your" agenda, nothing else.

Answer me this, did the UK ask the USA for help during WW2 providing war materials etc which would be paid for over a period, as you purport USA helping is just a money making exercise.....?

 

My agenda eh?! And what might that be I wonder?! Let me see now,,,,.

This topic is about the Ukraine/Russia conflict. If you want a comprehensive reply on WW2, and Mr Churchill specifically, start another thread, and I'll willingly accommodate you.

But! I must ask you Mr Transam;  where do you think the 50 billion US dollars of aid to the Ukraine comes (originates) from?

 

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14 hours ago, Guphz said:

I don't get most of my information here from the press at all.

Where are you getting yours?

Why are you making assumptions about how other people get their information anyway?

Because I see the quotations from the western press that people make. It's not rocket science.

These arent assumption, they're facts.  People make quotations. I dont believe any of it.

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1 hour ago, snapdragon said:

My agenda eh?! And what might that be I wonder?! Let me see now,,,,.

This topic is about the Ukraine/Russia conflict. If you want a comprehensive reply on WW2, and Mr Churchill specifically, start another thread, and I'll willingly accommodate you.

But! I must ask you Mr Transam;  where do you think the 50 billion US dollars of aid to the Ukraine comes (originates) from?

Not interested in what you are transfixed on, the USA making money.

You started slagging off the USA, yet you avoid my questions about the USA providing help and paying for it.

Why are you interested in how the Ukraine aid is being paid for, are you Russian, by any chance, or one of those lefty blokes....?

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1 hour ago, Transam said:

Not interested in what you are transfixed on, the USA making money.

You started slagging off the USA, yet you avoid my questions about the USA providing help and paying for it.

Why are you interested in how the Ukraine aid is being paid for, are you Russian, by any chance, or one of those lefty blokes....?

This conflict is the US's making. It is desperately holding on to its Imperial position. Keeping countries under control. Maintenance of the Petro-dollar as the world currency, at all costs. Continuation of the US's view of the world order.

IMO it does not care one bit about the people of Ukraine. The US's major aim is the weakening of Russia. It is using Ukraine as a stepping stone to continue its domination.

Things will escalate in the next couple of months. Iran is fixed firmly in Israel's sights. War games afoot there I'm sure. Australia's stance on China, who it now sees as an enemy rather than a friendly trading partner. The South China Sea. Taiwan. It's all coming to a head, I'm reluctant to say.

You doubt that the US is pulling the strings Mr Transam!?

As for my political stance; I'm a fully paid up member of the UK Labour Party. Although I am not on board with their current views on many things. Does that make me a 'lefty bloke'?

 

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1 hour ago, Poolie said:

Because I see the quotations from the western press that people make. //snip// I dont believe any of it.

The latest from western MSM is that the surrender of the Mariupol steel plant hold-outs, was some kind of Kiev negotiation to avoid war crimes. And now the press is full of perceived Russian ill-treatment of those who surrendered.

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