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Russia v Ukraine - How This Is Going To End


Pinetree
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1 hour ago, Fanta said:

Zelenskky refused to accept ultimatums to surrender at Mariupol knowing full well they were surrounded and he was possibly condemning them to certain death. The Zelenskyy apologists here then said the trapped were probably refusing orders thereby forcing Zelenskyy to refuse the ultimatum. They are lucky Russia didn’t obliterate that place.

Zelensky left it to the local commanders. They decided to hold out. Thus buying valuable time for the Ukrainians to move its forces from the north around Kyiv to the south and east.

I also recall you were adamant at the time all those civilians also sheltering under the steelworks were being held against their will. That is of course until they all walked out of there. Odd how you went missing for a few days after that and simply ignored questions asking why you were SO wrong once again.

1 hour ago, Fanta said:

If Ukraine refuse peace and keep attacking do you expect Russia to wait until Ukraine exhaust themselves? Ultimatums must be delivered and followed through with to force peace. Even an unconditional surrender occurs before all the enemy forces are destroyed because of ground taken not casualties:

Who attacked who? Your chum Czar Putin attacked the Ukraine. Again you see everything through a prism that the Ukraine must appease the aggressor. Not going to happen. Czar Putin and his thugs are now in a position of weakness. What should have been a done deal within 48 hours has now dragged on for 100 days because Russia is simply no longer in control. Czar Putin is not winning this. Its as simple as that. All he is doing is dragging out the inevitable hoping for a miracle. 

1 hour ago, Fanta said:

Don’t twist my words. Direct Russian attacks on Kyiv will force people to readjust their thinking. It was headline news the other day when Russia lobbed a few into Kyiv.

It was not headline news that they would appease the invader was it? It was simply another reason for Ukrainians to hate Czar Putin and want to carry on fighting. 

Not once have you called for Czar Putin and his thugs to leave the Ukraine and stop killing people. All you have done since this entire war started is call for the Ukraine to appease his aggression. And your calls for it are becoming ever more desperate. You know its all going wrong. But you will sit here day after day calling for the Ukraine to surrender. In the interests of peace 😆

1 hour ago, Fanta said:

Too much Sky News for you.. The UAF in Sieverdonetsk is now confined to an industrial plant, complaining they are out of ammo and artillery outnumbers them 10-1. The mayor said that. Great advance - backwards.

But they are still there. What does that tell you about the fighting spirit of the Ukraine compared to the craven Czar Putin thugs. This is Russias main focus in the war at the moment and its being held back by a couple of thousand men. The Russian army has become a joke. Western forces would take a town that size within 12 hours but your buddies still cant take it after a week. 

1 hour ago, Fanta said:

Luhansk oblast has gone from 80% to 97% under Russian control within the last month.  The counteroffensives of which you speak have gone on for nearly a month and have made minimal progress near Kherson (5 kilometers?) and Kharkiv stopped weeks ago. Only the UAF wants Russia to advance across a 500km long front. Ludicrous to claim that not doing so is a sign of weakness. Russia attacks a place at a time, consolidates and then moves onto the next place

Lies. Pure and utter lies. 5 clicks near Kherson? And do remember this is not the primary front for the Ukrainians. Kharkiv? You were on the outskirts of the city a month ago.

Not advancing anywhere is a sign of weakness. The west is laughing at the pathetic performance of Czar Putin and his thugs.

Still, so long as they kill women and kids sheltering in a basement its a win for you eh?

But lets look at what Czar Putin has actually achieved. NATO more unified than it has been in 30 years. Sweden and Finland joining its ranks. The EU offering membership to the Ukraine. A load of sanctions crippling the Russian economy. Even Chinese companies are pulling out of Russia. Thousands dead on both sides.

For what? 

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1 hour ago, snapdragon said:

Oh dear!

You are not easily fooled then Mr R. Because it was on TV, it must be true.

 

1 hour ago, snapdragon said:

Oh! Mr R. This really is monumental humbug.

My 'credibility' goes out the window? Why 'cause you don't agree with me?

I'm not trying to deflect anything Mr Rookiescot.

I am aware of the history of the area, I am also aware of the US involvement in many countries; including the Ukraine. I am also aware of how the US dark state works. UK too!

To simply ignore the region's history - especially since 2013 - is doing the debate an injustice.

Tell me something Mr Truth Seeker.

Do viruses exist?

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58 minutes ago, Freeduhdumb said:

Because its only genocide by megalomaniac criminals when Putin does it. Lol. Remember the invasion of Iraq because of "Weapons of Mass Destruction" that were, btw, never found? You think Putin is going to allow invasion of his own country? You think Putin is just going to give away all of those rich gas and oil fields there in Ukraine, Russia, Uzbek, Khazakstan etc.? Wake up bro... the West, via NATO, has been salivating over those lands ever since the fall of the USSR. The invasion was necessary for Russia. Get over it. 

Then Czar Putin must be dumber than a box of rocks because EVERYTHING that has happened since is the exact opposite of what he wanted to achieve. 

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10 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

Tell me something Mr Truth Seeker.

Do viruses exist?

I think I should duck that question Mr Rookiescot.

Wouldn't want to see me banned would you?

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7 minutes ago, snapdragon said:

I think I should duck that question Mr Rookiescot.

Wouldn't want to see me banned would you?

Not at all but it does go a long way as to quantifying how much veracity we should give your posts. 

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34 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

Tell me something Mr Truth Seeker.

Do viruses exist?

Got any cats? The stupidity never ends... Good Luck Humans... The enemy is everywhere. Time to lockdown again. Do we kill all the cats now? Are we going to kill all the animals when they are found infected? 

https://www.bangkokpost.com/thailand/general/2324233

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19 minutes ago, Freeduhdumb said:

Got any cats? The stupidity never ends... Good Luck Humans... The enemy is everywhere. Time to lockdown again. Do we kill all the cats now? Are we going to kill all the animals when they are found infected? 

https://www.bangkokpost.com/thailand/general/2324233

Think you missed the point here.

Woooooosh. Yup there it went right over the top of your head.

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1 hour ago, friendofthai said:

My explanation is not about why the war began. My explanation is about why the West is involved in it to such a degree. 50k people were killed in numerous wars in 2020. Nobody yelled about it all over the world. Silence. The Ukraine-Russia war is just a war between two developing countries like many other similar wars that we saw during the last years. But If you switch on your TV the impression would be as if it were the only war during the last 200 years.

It’s a critically important war near NATO / EU Western Lands. Russia an existential threat to West. Any wars in uncivilized places (except Arabian Gulf)  are not strategically important to West. 

This explains why Yemen or Eritrean conflicts not reported.

But not why the far more important Serious Crime / Cartel Drug Wars  in USA never covered. 

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1 hour ago, Rookiescot said:

Think you missed the point here.

Woooooosh. Yup there it went right over the top of your head.

I'm right on target, you've got your head in the sand...

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Posted (edited)

Zelensky is on his last legs, he needs to revisit his objectives

time to surrender and being constructive for once, and stop being Biden stooge

European leaders are tired already of Ukraine and Zelensky, except the silly Eastern European countries, but who care about them anyway 😛

 

Edited by butterfly
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5 hours ago, oldschooler said:

Check Prof. J. Mearscheimer ( You Tube / Ukraine).  However, it’s just not accepted by modern western standards. 😩😎

He seems to make sense. 

 

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, oldschooler said:

Russia an existential threat to West.

Russians military men visited western capital cities several times. For example, they visited Paris in 1812 and Berlin in 1945. And they always returned to their homes. Now we can see a similar process. Russians are returning to their homes according to the WW2 borders. Can't see anything to be scared of.

Edited by friendofthai
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What is the point in debating a serious thread like this if you are not willing to accept Evidence, be it video links CC Camera footage of Russian aggression on Ukrainians you won't accept it so why carry on this thread.

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3 hours ago, Fanta said:

He seems to make sense. 

Counter point for what it’s worth:

 

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3 hours ago, vlad said:

What is the point in debating a serious thread like this if you are not willing to accept Evidence, be it video links CC Camera footage of Russian aggression on Ukrainians you won't accept it so why carry on this thread.

Some here are just anti's, no matter what the subject is, grin and bear.........😊

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11 hours ago, Freeduhdumb said:

Because its only genocide by megalomaniac criminals when Putin does it. Lol. Remember the invasion of Iraq because of "Weapons of Mass Destruction" that were, btw, never found? You think Putin is going to allow invasion of his own country? You think Putin is just going to give away all of those rich gas and oil fields there in Ukraine, Russia, Uzbek, Khazakstan etc.? Wake up bro... the West, via NATO, has been salivating over those lands ever since the fall of the USSR. The invasion was necessary for Russia. Get over it. 

I did answer you, but I deleted it,  as I would be barred  and you and your kind are not worth it.  

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2 minutes ago, Pinetree said:

I did answer you, but I deleted it,  as I would be barred  and you and your kind are not worth it.  

The war is pretty much over anyway. The Donbass is just about fully controlled now by Russia... It will be interesting to see how they take Odessa. The "West" is already playing the blame game for who is responsible.. as predicted, the fingers are beginning to point directly at Zelensky. The Biden Regime will not be taking responsibility despite being the instigators in all of this. 

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9 minutes ago, Freeduhdumb said:

The war is pretty much over anyway. The Donbass is just about fully controlled now by Russia... It will be interesting to see how they take Odessa. The "West" is already playing the blame game for who is responsible.. as predicted, the fingers are beginning to point directly at Zelensky. The Biden Regime will not be taking responsibility despite being the instigators in all of this. 

That is more total rollocks from you. If you have a beef about the USA, then why don't you start your own thread instead of continually spouting USA nonsense here......😏

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7 hours ago, Fanta said:

He seems to make sense. 

 

7 hours ago, friendofthai said:

Russians military men visited western capital cities several times. For example, they visited Paris in 1812 and Berlin in 1945. And they always returned to their homes. Now we can see a similar process. Russians are returning to their homes according to the WW2 borders. Can't see anything to be scared of.

Nuclear Armed, Irrational, Unfree, Uncivilized, Paranoid,  Massive Population & Military, Hostile to West Existence, Feeling Threatened, No Desire for Freedom, Content to be Ruled by Gangster Klepto FSB Terror.

Uses Barbaric Invasion Strategy without Proper Cause.

Human Life Not Valued.

Habitually Commits Widespread War Crimes.

Yeah right, what’s to Fear from Russia? 

Thankfully Russias reach now seen to be limited only to East Ukraine.

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1 hour ago, Freeduhdumb said:

The war is pretty much over anyway. The Donbass is just about fully controlled now by Russia... It will be interesting to see how they take Odessa. The "West" is already playing the blame game for who is responsible.. as predicted, the fingers are beginning to point directly at Zelensky. The Biden Regime will not be taking responsibility despite being the instigators in all of this. 

Comedy ? Joke, right ? Naked Pro- Russian Propaganda 😩Zero Traction outside brain- dead Russia & their silly Agitators. Oh, & anti- USA / UK Tools. Not Remotely Factual or Credible.😞

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5 hours ago, EdwardV said:

Counter point for what it’s worth:

Mearscheimer perfectly puts the Russian Case and seems to believe Putin is Justified with seeing it that way. 
And that Ukraine & West must kow-tow / appease / accommodate Putin. 😡

He has boasted about being “ welcomed” in Russia and China to lecture😩Ya think ? 😩

He ignores what happened with Hitler getting Appeased, seeing it as Weak West, getting Further Emboldened ! 😡

Important to Understand the Russia Case / Perspective though. Just that it’s plainly Untrue as Defensive NATO would NEVER initiate any invasion of nuclear- armed Russia. Absurd Idea.😡

NATO did understand all this and used it to push all Putins “ red line” buttons by effectively Ignoring Putins Case, in effect saying TOUGH , we don’t take orders from tyrants,  contrary to our role, we continue to Defend West against Unfree Russia.Original Purpose has Never Changed. 

NATO Continued to accept former Russian Colonies as freely- determined Members.😌👍

Continued to aid Ukraine for the coming conflict.😎👍

If ONLY Russia was Free, Integrated in West, No Need for NATO . Free Russia Needed in the Future Wars to Obliterate Tyranny in China NKorea Iran SyriaVenezuela. 👍😎

 

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9 minutes ago, oldschooler said:

Comedy ? Joke, right ? Naked Pro- Russian Propaganda 😩Zero Traction outside brain- dead Russia & their silly Agitators. Oh, & anti- USA / UK Tools. Not Remotely Factual or Credible.😞

Sieverodonetsk is as good as done. The remaining UAF and civilians at Sieverodonetsk are hemmed into an industrial park - Mariupol the Sequel. One bridge remains intact to it’s sister city. Nothing is coming in or out of those cities except what Russia allows. That is a wrap for the Luhansk oblast. I give the entire Donbas region another month until it is fully under Russian control. 

Did Biden 2 days ago fire the first shot in the blame game? 

“ I know a lot of people thought I was maybe exaggerating, but I knew, and we had data to sustain, he was going in off the border. There was no doubt. And Zelensky did not want to hear it, nor did a lot of people,” Biden said on Friday, June 10, during a political fundraiser in Los Angeles

https://www.kyivpost.com/russias-war-against-ukraine/biden-zelensky-ignored-warnings-about-attack-kyiv-disagrees.html

Ukraine’s response is, basically, we didn’t ignore it. We just didn’t know it was going to be that big. 

As if 150,000+ soldiers on the border were easily ignored. Kyiv cannot politically afford to say Biden is lying. Judging by Ukraine’s initial successful military responses they were not at all taken by surprise and had clearly been listening. 

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34 minutes ago, oldschooler said:

Comedy ? Joke, right ? Naked Pro- Russian Propaganda 😩Zero Traction outside brain- dead Russia & their silly Agitators. Oh, & anti- USA / UK Tools. Not Remotely Factual or Credible.😞

No... It's not a joke, deadly, literally deadly serious. The Russians own a large majority of the Donbass it's only a matter of weeks now before they lock the rest down... The Ukrainian map says it all. Yes... this is objective and factual

https://liveuamap.com/

And this AP article show Biden throwing Zelensky under the bus as we say. Biden accusing Zelensky of brushing aside warnings and not wanting to hear that the invasion was coming. All attempts by Biden to point the ineptitude squarely at Zelensky... 

https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-donetsk-education-business-85a2489b4fe1042cd03b0ae6f4421a04

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7 minutes ago, Fanta said:

Sieverodonetsk is as good as done. The remaining UAF and civilians at Sieverodonetsk are hemmed into an industrial park - Mariupol the Sequel. One bridge remains intact to it’s sister city. Nothing is coming in or out of those cities except what Russia allows. That is a wrap for the Luhansk oblast. I give the entire Donbas region another month until it is fully under Russian control. 

Did Biden 2 days ago fire the first shot in the blame game? 

“ I know a lot of people thought I was maybe exaggerating, but I knew, and we had data to sustain, he was going in off the border. There was no doubt. And Zelensky did not want to hear it, nor did a lot of people,” Biden said on Friday, June 10, during a political fundraiser in Los Angeles

https://www.kyivpost.com/russias-war-against-ukraine/biden-zelensky-ignored-warnings-about-attack-kyiv-disagrees.html

Ukraine’s response is, basically, we didn’t ignore it. We just didn’t know it was going to be that big. 

As if 150,000+ soldiers on the border were easily ignored. Kyiv cannot politically afford to say Biden is lying. Judging by Ukraine’s initial successful military responses they were not at all taken by surprise and had clearly been listening. 

Like UK was “ as good as done” after Dunkirk perhaps ? NATO / Ukraine preparing for & provoked Russian Invasion since 2008 😌Only fools like Stalin ignore clear intelligence re. Enemy Army Build Up on Border plus earlier invasion 2014 😡

Ukraine have suckered in an emotional non- strategic expensive Russian attack continuation on Severodonetsk which gives Russian NOTHING Material as wrong side of river 🤣🤣🤣

Zelensky clearly PRETENDED not to believe invasion size to lure Russia in. 
Deception as ever at play in war. 😎👍😉

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8 hours ago, friendofthai said:

Russians military men visited western capital cities several times. For example, they visited Paris in 1812 and Berlin in 1945. And they always returned to their homes. Now we can see a similar process. Russians are returning to their homes according to the WW2 borders. Can't see anything to be scared of.

Russian troops "visited" Paris in March 2014 (not in 1812). They were part of the Prussian and Austrian coalition.

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