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News Forum - Thailand, post Covid. What needs to change?


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10 minutes ago, Jean said:

It will get even more complicated. I think so.

Hi, @Jeanand welcome to the forum! A short but sweet debut post, but thanks for that, nonetheless!

Happy posting . . .

KC

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2 hours ago, Pinetree said:

Absolutely not so. The Thai government has been pragmatic and flexible, as much as caution allowed, in guiding the country through the pandemic and they have largely done a pretty good job and much better than many other countries panicking politicians, such as UK, Australia and New Zealand.  

I admire your sense of humour.

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32 minutes ago, Guevara said:

I admire your sense of humour.

Extended stay for those >50 is showing income of B65k/,mo or 800k in the bank.  If people don't have enough there are agents that can help.  Nothing complicated. I really don't know why some people have problems. Thailand only want people who can support themselves and  ot be a burden on Thais. 

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1 hour ago, LoongFred said:

Extended stay for those >50 is showing income of B65k/,mo or 800k in the bank.  If people don't have enough there are agents that can help.  Nothing complicated. I really don't know why some people have problems. Thailand only want people who can support themselves and  ot be a burden on Thais. 

I wholly agree, Thailand amongst most 'sensible Countries have a similar policy. If you are unable to be self sufficient (financially) why should any Country bail you out?

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1 hour ago, Guevara said:

I wholly agree, Thailand amongst most 'sensible Countries have a similar policy. If you are unable to be self sufficient (financially) why should any Country bail you out?

No reason at all. Spot on. 😀

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On 2/12/2022 at 5:29 AM, Thaiger said:

OPINION As Thailand starts to peer out from behind the Covid curtain, many expats and potential travellers are wondering if much will change after 2 years of lockdowns, closures re-openings and re-entry ‘plans’. Will we see changes in visas, property ownership, entry requirements and business laws? One of our YouTube commenters wrote in with his current ‘wish list’ (below). As the Thai government will be scrambling to attract travellers this year (along with most tourism-dependent countries), the constant narrative from senior ministers is to attract “high wealth individuals” to the Kingdom, for investment, general travel, retirement and medical tourism. But […]

The story Thailand, post Covid. What needs to change? as seen on Thaiger News.

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There are several topics: tourism, employment and land/business ownership.

As for tourism: making the entry process easier. Forget about the Thai Pass, just one test before departure and one upon arrival should do. 30 day visa length should be extended, 60 days should suffice.

Employment: that should remain regulated. But easing the hurdles for highly qualified foreigners is not a bad Idea. With regards to the digital nomads: these people do work when in Thailand but I doubt that they pay income tax in Thailand (which they should do as this income is derived from activities in Thailand).

Land ownership: should be permitted under certain circumstances, i.e.for the farang spouse. But beware for selling out Thailand to foreigners.

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11 hours ago, Pinetree said:

Absolutely not so. The Thai government has been pragmatic and flexible, as much as caution allowed, in guiding the country through the pandemic and they have largely done a pretty good job and much better than many other countries panicking politicians, such as UK, Australia and New Zealand.  

Please mark your post humorous - or are you serious?

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7 hours ago, Fundok said:

Please mark your post humorous - or are you serious?

I take it that you disagree.  I would be interested to know which country's do you think have handled it better than Thailand? I personally can't think of one.

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9 minutes ago, Pinetree said:

I take it that you disagree.  I would be interested to know which country's do you think have handled it better than Thailand? I personally can't think of one.

I'd say most of the Northern Asian countries handled it better 

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4 hours ago, Pinetree said:

I take it that you disagree.  I would be interested to know which country's do you think have handled it better than Thailand? I personally can't think of one.

Indeed, I disagree. The Thai economy has been severely damaged, the vaccination of the population started late, there is no cohesive test system in place so the real infection numbers are unknown and can only be best guessed and are for sure much higher than reported. So with everything put together I don't think that Thailand has done particularily well, but indeed there are other countries where things went worse. Very difficult to make a fair comparison, as there are many factors to take into account. South Korea did very well initially, NZ too, and China has been the most consequential (but very questionable approach with regards to privacy).

Been to TH last month. Could see how bad the economy is, and how badly my wife's family was hit.

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2 hours ago, Fundok said:

Indeed, I disagree. The Thai economy has been severely damaged, the vaccination of the population started late, there is no cohesive test system in place so the real infection numbers are unknown and can only be best guessed and are for sure much higher than reported. So with everything put together I don't think that Thailand has done particularily well, but indeed there are other countries where things went worse. Very difficult to make a fair comparison, as there are many factors to take into account. South Korea did very well initially, NZ too, and China has been the most consequential (but very questionable approach with regards to privacy).

Been to TH last month. Could see how bad the economy is, and how badly my wife's family was hit.

Well we each have our own opinion. All economies and all peoples have been negatively impacted in some way or another, bar the worlds billionaires, but that is the nature of pandemics that rock the foundations of the world.  All I can say is that of all the places that I could ride out this pandemic over the last 2 years, I am glad that I was able to do it here in Thailand.  

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36 minutes ago, Pinetree said:

Well we each have our own opinion. All economies and all peoples have been negatively impacted in some way or another, bar the worlds billionaires, but that is the nature of pandemics that rock the foundations of the world.  All I can say is that of all the places that I could ride out this pandemic over the last 2 years, I am glad that I was able to do it here in Thailand.  

"Well we each have our own opinion."

True. And rightfully so. And I appreciate the polite and respectful style of discussion. 

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On 2/14/2022 at 1:36 PM, Fundok said:

Indeed, I disagree. The Thai economy has been severely damaged, the vaccination of the population started late, there is no cohesive test system in place so the real infection numbers are unknown and can only be best guessed and are for sure much higher than reported. So with everything put together I don't think that Thailand has done particularily well, but indeed there are other countries where things went worse. Very difficult to make a fair comparison, as there are many factors to take into account. South Korea did very well initially, NZ too, and China has been the most consequential (but very questionable approach with regards to privacy).

Been to TH last month. Could see how bad the economy is, and how badly my wife's family was hit.

The economy where I'm at is not greatly affected. It's still hard to find workers and everyone has jobs. There seem to be fewer cars in the parking lots of Makro and Big C, but we've stated going earlier, so not sure. 

Maybe some places like Issan are harder hit. Tourist areas are definitely down.

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What post covid? Covid will be with us for 40 or 50 years minimum and those of us that are "at risk" are going to either figure out how to avoid infection or just become gamblers with our own lives because as time goes on governments will care less and less and the public will get used to the deaths and just ignore them. It's already happening. Personally I have a heart condition that puts me at high risk even though I'm triple vaxed I have decided as soon as I am in a position to act I will be moving to Thailand or the Philippines to spend the time I have left in comfort and try to achieve so personal goals before the Wuhan Flu takes me out. If I can repair the damage that two years apart has done to my relationship with my Asian lady I will marry her and leave her most of my estate when I go. Don't be a fool and think things will ever be as they were before because they won't. It's time to figure out what you will do in the new world and take I to account you probably have a shorter life expectancy than you had before Covid. 

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26 minutes ago, Tim_Melb said:

Covid will be with us for 40 or 50 years minimum

The covid virus has been around for centuries.  There was a believable report last week that it has been found in a dormant state deep within the Northern latitudes Ice cap.  Go figure. 

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5 hours ago, LoongFred said:

The economy where I'm at is not greatly affected. It's still hard to find workers and everyone has jobs. There seem to be fewer cars in the parking lots of Makro and Big C, but we've stated going earlier, so not sure. 

Maybe some places like Issan are harder hit. Tourist areas are definitely down.

You are lucky then. Been to Phuket, Bangkok and Chiang Mai last month. The impact on (now closed) businesses - especially smaller ones - was very noticeable. 

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The Thai government is desperate to bring back tourists. About 15% of GDP is foreign tourism to the country. The government itself has problems to pay the bills and has raised the debt ceiling last year from 60% to 80% and continues to do so. This together with many SME businesses struggling indicates a serious problem for the economy and a repeat of 1997 is likely.

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1 hour ago, OOber said:

The Thai government is desperate to bring back tourists. About 15% of GDP is foreign tourism to the country. The government itself has problems to pay the bills and has raised the debt ceiling last year from 60% to 80% and continues to do so. This together with many SME businesses struggling indicates a serious problem for the economy and a repeat of 1997 is likely.

If this is true... then clearly changes need to be made.

My #1 would be removing the work permit and work income requirement for Permanent Residency (PR). Non-immigrants wishing to qualify for a PR immigrant status should be allowed to prove up their ability to be financially stable by means of other mechanisms such as investment/pensions etc. This one step would remove many barriers and provide solutions, for those who would truly like to truly establish a permanent status. This would lead to a less onerous path to citizenship allowing those who want to go all the way to owning land and full ownership of their business'. 

From the proposed list...

Things that would help somewhat..

1. Scrap Test and Go, proof of accommodation and onward flights.

We now know covid is not killing everyone, time to remove the Emergency Decree and learn to live with yet another cold virus. "tourists" clearly are never going to come with the current programs in place. If these vacillations in Test and Go (or whatever scheme) continue there can be no tourism confidence for operators or tourists. It's clear there will be no recovery in this segment of GDP until we get back to near normal travel again. 

2. Scrap the 60 day Tourist visa + 30 day extension and just give a 90 day, 6 month or 1 year Tourist visa. (More visa options in general would be nice. Bringing back the volunteer visa would be beneficial to many people)

Excellent idea. The currently multiple tourist scheme program is too confusing and cumbersome for most people. Let's keep it simple shall we. Give the tourist 90 days with eligibility for extensions. If they truly want to capture large numbers again, they're going to have make it simpler and stable.

3. Allow foreigners to buy land and houses Even if it’s only a certain amount per person. (If it’s for business use it would create local jobs and more tax for the government. This would also attract more retirees who don’t like the idea of living in a condo or renting)

As a Farang, I don't support this idea (see my #1 solution above). I've seen my own countries liberal land ownership policy turn entire locations and neighborhoods into foreign investment vehicles instead of communities. In my opinion, land ownership belongs to citizens... if you want to own land, do what it takes to become a citizen and become a full member of society and not just use the land as your personal investments model. My #1 PR status solution, as a step to a less restrictive path to citizenship, is the key solution in my opinion.

4. Allow foreigners to own a business outright. (They are reducing the amount of potential investors and people who could grow a big business over time. Which would again result in more jobs and more tax for the government.) 

Again a less restrictive path to PR, in lockstep with already currently established mechanisms. Your "ownership" will increase with your increasing permanent residency status, up to citizenship. The "Devils in the details" as the saying goes and of course would need to be further developed. How could this look/shake out with a less onerous path to citizenship... again PR is the key.

5. More job options for foreigners. (More people, more tax, more demand, more growth etc)

What jobs? My understanding is any type of job a foreigner would be a good fit for already exist. The fact is... there are already mechanisms in place? The fact of the matter is, if you are educated and/or have a professional skill set, there just aren't that many jobs available in Thailand. 

 

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26 minutes ago, samiam123 said:

No more PCR test required prior to coming back to Canada.  So that is one less hurdle to deal with.  Still need a supervised Antigen test but that's a lot easier and cheaper to do.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/pcr-test-arrival-travel-drop-1.6350469

Still not that much less, IMO

 

Cheaper yes and you are likely be able to go to CVS/Walgreens and get an Antigen result back within the 3 day timeframe than a PCR test

 

But wish they had dropped the testing altogether..............

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8 hours ago, Pinetree said:

The covid virus has been around for centuries.  There was a believable report last week that it has been found in a dormant state deep within the Northern latitudes Ice cap.  Go figure. 

The first COVID epidemic was in the 1890,five years in duration,that strain is still around barely registers.The only regulations left from Friday the 25th here in the Netherlands that will affect me is I will still have to wear a mask on public transport.When I can fly without wearing one I will immediately book a flight to Bangkok.

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As someone who has travelled/lived and done business in Thailand since 1979, and married to the same Thai lady for 38 years, in my opinion things are going to get a lot worse.  Everything thing we do now,no matter what country we live in has become and wlll continue to become more difficult, be it travel,banking, insurance even querying a utility bill has now become a never ending nightmare. For a taster of the future in Thailand just look at the ridiculous rules for entry at the moment when most countries are opening their borders, the uncertainty about expat retirement visas and insurance requirements. The constant changes and fear of being forced into a hospital at great expense has put off most people visiting. These unreasonable actions tell you something about the Thai mindset, according to opinion polls the average Thai even now would prefer that foreigners kept away. It’s guite incredible how the population have been terrified and controlled by the government... no protests or demonstrations about lockdowns or vaccine mandates despite having virtually no financial assistance at all. I can quite see masks being worn for the next 5 years, how can one enjoy retirement under these circumstances?

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42 minutes ago, CharlesW said:

As someone who has travelled/lived and done business in Thailand since 1979, and married to the same Thai lady for 38 years, in my opinion things are going to get a lot worse.  Everything thing we do now,no matter what country we live in has become and wlll continue to become more difficult, be it travel,banking, insurance even querying a utility bill has now become a never ending nightmare. For a taster of the future in Thailand just look at the ridiculous rules for entry at the moment when most countries are opening their borders, the uncertainty about expat retirement visas and insurance requirements. The constant changes and fear of being forced into a hospital at great expense has put off most people visiting. These unreasonable actions tell you something about the Thai mindset, according to opinion polls the average Thai even now would prefer that foreigners kept away. It’s guite incredible how the population have been terrified and controlled by the government... no protests or demonstrations about lockdowns or vaccine mandates despite having virtually no financial assistance at all. I can quite see masks being worn for the next 5 years, how can one enjoy retirement under these circumstances?

I wouldn't call the population terrified

I'd call them in agreement 

 

Most Thais I know are for the restrictions and I mean domestic restrictions

 

And I think Thailand will become very similar to places like Japan and Korea

Who've been wearing masks for years

 

And they will wear masks because they don't mind wearing them.....

 

 

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7 hours ago, Freeduhdumb said:

If this is true... then clearly changes need to be made.

My #1 would be removing the work permit and work income requirement for Permanent Residency (PR). Non-immigrants wishing to qualify for a PR immigrant status should be allowed to prove up their ability to be financially stable by means of other mechanisms such as investment/pensions etc. This one step would remove many barriers and provide solutions, for those who would truly like to truly establish a permanent status. This would lead to a less onerous path to citizenship allowing those who want to go all the way to owning land and full ownership of their business'. 

From the proposed list...

Things that would help somewhat..

1. Scrap Test and Go, proof of accommodation and onward flights.

We now know covid is not killing everyone, time to remove the Emergency Decree and learn to live with yet another cold virus. "tourists" clearly are never going to come with the current programs in place. If these vacillations in Test and Go (or whatever scheme) continue there can be no tourism confidence for operators or tourists. It's clear there will be no recovery in this segment of GDP until we get back to near normal travel again. 

2. Scrap the 60 day Tourist visa + 30 day extension and just give a 90 day, 6 month or 1 year Tourist visa. (More visa options in general would be nice. Bringing back the volunteer visa would be beneficial to many people)

Excellent idea. The currently multiple tourist scheme program is too confusing and cumbersome for most people. Let's keep it simple shall we. Give the tourist 90 days with eligibility for extensions. If they truly want to capture large numbers again, they're going to have make it simpler and stable.

3. Allow foreigners to buy land and houses Even if it’s only a certain amount per person. (If it’s for business use it would create local jobs and more tax for the government. This would also attract more retirees who don’t like the idea of living in a condo or renting)

As a Farang, I don't support this idea (see my #1 solution above). I've seen my own countries liberal land ownership policy turn entire locations and neighborhoods into foreign investment vehicles instead of communities. In my opinion, land ownership belongs to citizens... if you want to own land, do what it takes to become a citizen and become a full member of society and not just use the land as your personal investments model. My #1 PR status solution, as a step to a less restrictive path to citizenship, is the key solution in my opinion.

4. Allow foreigners to own a business outright. (They are reducing the amount of potential investors and people who could grow a big business over time. Which would again result in more jobs and more tax for the government.) 

Again a less restrictive path to PR, in lockstep with already currently established mechanisms. Your "ownership" will increase with your increasing permanent residency status, up to citizenship. The "Devils in the details" as the saying goes and of course would need to be further developed. How could this look/shake out with a less onerous path to citizenship... again PR is the key.

5. More job options for foreigners. (More people, more tax, more demand, more growth etc)

What jobs? My understanding is any type of job a foreigner would be a good fit for already exist. The fact is... there are already mechanisms in place? The fact of the matter is, if you are educated and/or have a professional skill set, there just aren't that many jobs available in Thailand. 

Well thought out responses.

I would like to spend more time in Thailand and possibly live there with my Thai lady when we are married.

I agree that less restrictive visas and PR is the key.

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6 hours ago, yselmike said:

wear a mask on public transport.When I can fly without wearing one I will immediately book a flight to Bangkok.

You may be waiting a very long time for that to happen.  Airlines will be acutely conscious of litigation if a passenger can prove that they caught covid on an flight on their aircraft.  Unlike governments, they will not be protected from such legal action. It may be years, or maybe never, that masks are not required on flights,. especially on long haul. 

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