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Popular Content

Showing content with the highest reputation on 07/31/2021 in all areas

  1. This is the 'price' of the 'go-to family for Songkran' and wanting to keep 'Krungthep open'. I understand that Bangkokians don't like to be isolated, but putting your selfish need for parties in front of the health of others... well f*ck me. I haven't seen a bar since this Songkran lockdown - Do I miss it, sure... but I'm one of those Foreigners whom actually follows the rules am I scared to die of COVID.... not really but wouldn't want that somebody else dies from my actions.
    8 points
  2. The Thai approach to math mystifies me. How will an increase in hotel openings increase the occupancy rate? Unless I am wrong, if you have the same numbers of customers, but more availability, then the occupancy rate would decrease, not increase.
    8 points
  3. Do I hear 30,000, 30,000, 30,000, done. Can I hear 40,000, 40,000, 40,000, done, 50,000, 50,000, 50,000, 50,000, done, 100,000, 100,000, 150,000, 150,000 done. We have a winner at 150,000 and 32,000 dead. Sold to the winner Sinovac.
    6 points
  4. Total nonsense I’m afraid. Some of the words are correct but your conclusion of vaccines not working is wrong. Yes, countries with high vaccination rates are seeing increases in case numbers, but let me explain the reason why. As vaccination rates increase and serious illness and deaths fall, those countries can start to open up again. In the U.K. with high vaccination rates, it has opened up since July 19th. Consequently people are mixing more and so infection rates will naturally rise. However the illness and death rates remain significantly lower than before. Prior to the vaccine rollout with the same number of cases, the death rate was 10x higher. Vaccination works and the evidence is there to see.
    6 points
  5. “Criticism is something we can avoid easily by saying nothing, doing nothing, and being nothing.” – Aristotle So why are they criticised?
    6 points
  6. Slowing down? Probably not even hitting the brakes and is being put into reverse.
    6 points
  7. BTW Where can I report fear-mongering? Today's new covid figures are frightening me. According to the new directive it shouldn't be published. My good morality is destroyed. "reporting news or disseminating information that may frighten people or intentionally distorting information to cause a misundertstanding about the emergency situation, which may eventually affect state security, order or good morality of the people.”.
    5 points
  8. This reminds to 89 in Germany about Erich Honecker. Gorbatchow the former Soviet Union leader made a visit to east Germany just days before the revolution started and told to Honecker " people who not understand the signs of the time will be punished by the life". He really didn't understood what Gorbatchow told him and a few weeks later he was fleeing to Chile and died short time later and in east germany put the revolution the regime and wall down.
    5 points
  9. I know you are trying to sell it, but I'm not buying. I've been a few times but never took to Phuket. Over developed, over price, over scammed, lacking the charm, culture and exotic nature I so love about Thailand. No doubt Phuket has all those things you list, but I can get those better and more at home. There are tons of great places in Thailand, I just personally think Phuket isn't one of them. I think of Phuket like I do about Cabo San Lucas or Waikiki, places so over overwhelmed for so long by tourists it's lost it's native feel.
    5 points
  10. Protection against the CCP’s gift that keeps on giving ,Double masks ,face shield and a bottle of 70% ! Never leave home without it!
    4 points
  11. I’m not so sure people want it to fail; I certainly don’t. The negative comments about the Sandbox on this forum are coming from the way it was implemented and controlled. Most people who comment on here come from educated and open societies who can see the nonsense that is going on. They can see the distortion of the facts, the propaganda and the mistakes being made. This is where I see most members being negative. I’d love it all to work smoothly and have hundreds of thousands visit Phuket and drive the economy for the local people forward. But being implemented in this way sadly means there is only one likely outcome. ?
    4 points
  12. Rubbish! It is the inoculations that are causing the breakthrough infections because the vaxxed idiots are shedding spike proteins and infecting everybody! Try and keep up with the FACTS.
    4 points
  13. This thread has wandered off into the netherworld, and has nothing to do with the topic at hand. Please, mods...cut out the non-topic postings and move them to the conspiracy/controversy thread where they belong.
    4 points
  14. One of my favourites Meat and Onion pie made by my lovely wife Ive got one left in the freezer
    4 points
  15. As things go forward, it is very clear that attendance to and usage of certain things will be restricted to those with full vaccination. I do understand that this is an imposition against people's freedoms etc., but I agree with that approach. So the freedom of choice will remain, but not the freedom of the herd: Do I wish to travel to Thailand? Then I will have to get vaccinated. No vaccination = no airline ticket. The science is clear. Herd Immunity is the only way to slow/stop a virus. The Covid virus is very bad and millions have died. The decision has been made to slow/stop Covid - as it was in the past with Polio etc. The decision was made to not try and slow/stop Influenza - because it is not that bad. Herd Immunity is only achievable through 'natural selection' and through vaccinations. The decision has been made to use vaccinations - but not mandatory - only voluntary. If some people choose not to vaccinate, then they will be prevented from being in close proximity to other vaccinated people - that decision is currently being made. I agree with that decision if/when it is made. I do not want to spend 9+ hours on a plane with someone that is not vaccinated - and that is my choice - and I believe that is the choice of the majority. I do not want to spend 2+ hours in a cinema with someone that is not vaccinated - and that is my choice - and I believe that is the choice of the majority. On so on and so forth. This is coming and is going to happen. Just as I cannot take nail clippers onto a plane anymore, if you are unvaccinated then you will not be allowed as well. Herd Immunity is the only solution and if some people refuse to achieve that through vaccinations, then they will not be allowed to be with the herd - they have that freedom of choice. They do not have the right to decide to be with the herd, while refusing to abide by the rules of the herd. And if there is enough of them, then airlines and hotels etc etc will offer 'vaccine free' only services. But dont hold your breath anti-vaxers - you are the minority and the majority decides - not the minority. Dont like it - then leave the herd. And until they vaccinate children - or ban children on international flights or from attending events - I will not be flying or attending events where they are allowed to be unvaccinated. There is a lot of stupidity in allowing children anywhere - what science says children cannot catch Covid and infect others.
    4 points
  16. That trafficker has a future. He could be a member of parliament
    4 points
  17. By reading the whole article I would say it's pretty accurate. However, the people you see in the video (at the test station) are not the kind of people who would ever step a foot in the black-bamboo bar, which is the culprit of this whole situation. Don't get me wrong I'm not defending them, they sure violated all the issued guidelines. My problem is the reported zero cases for weeks, when these people who are being tested are clearly not related to the bamboo cluster. (I was driving there today and all I've seen are mostly middle age Thais) I guess the good old mantra is stil true. "If you test you will find" Btw of course these people left their guard down when the case count suggested that Samui is covid free. The bamboo clients were probably stayed away from testing because of this little tip of yesterday: "According to Asean Now, the Koh Samui district chief Theerapong Chuaychu expanded an original statement vowing prosecution of the venues that spread the virus, and suggested that identified partygoers would also be prosecuted."
    4 points
  18. Ark store .? Anyone Noah what that's about ?
    4 points
  19. They gambled for the last 2 to 3 days and only 800 Baht siezed ???
    4 points
  20. I can't resist this: Does that mean the police did the bust without leaving the police station?
    4 points
  21. First let me say the authorities acted irresponsible ,I agree ! Im sitting up here in Sakon Nakhon ,we ,like many of the NORTH EAST,didn’t get spikes or many positive cases until the middle of June when they decided to announce on a Friday that they were locking down construction sites the following Monday!Only than the $hit hit the fan! I think many countries leading class have acted irresponsible in some capacity but this country is …
    3 points
  22. OK, you want some truth? In terms of making sense of what is going on, you need policy, competent ministers with experience in the fields their ministries are in charge of, and at least a tiny amount of vision and planning. Prayuth lacks every pre-requisite. So do most of his ministers. Especially Anutin and Pipat. Likely the two least qualified and least effective of the lot. One would think during a national emergency, a skilled and talented tourism and health minister would be considered important. He does not inspire confidence, as he has no follow up in his game, is highly insincere, and is grossly incompetent and under qualified for the job. One would think after 6 plus years he has had time to learn. That does not appear to be the case. He is a terrible leader. This kind of national emergency is real proof that Thailand should never allow another coup to happen. With a civilian government that is democratically elected, and a truly representative body in the senate, Thailand at least has a chance of qualified ministers being appointed based on merit and talent. With Prayuth and this army, there is little chance of this ever happening. They are re-defining the words cronyism and inept on a daily basis. Where is the anger? I am becoming furious at the incompetence and the AA (army apathy). Am I the only one? For many, the near future looks very dim. Tourism is not returning anytime soon, and most know that, despite what the goons continue spouting on about. Nobody knows how high unemployment is right now. I suspect it is over 30% nationwide. Alot of hurt right now. Alot of pain for the locals. I really feel for them. Where is the hope? Where is the promise of a rosy tomorrow? What is the future of the nation? Seven years of regression, combined with a stunning degree of mismanagement, ineptitude, lack of vision, and inability to even get the vaccine program right, is leading to alot of desperation at this time. I cannot be punished, as all of this it true. However we know what you actually meant, Prayuth. What you actually meant is: You cannot criticize us, on any level, for anything! Ever! Am I understood? However, since the worldwide media, social media, and the Guardian are now publishing highly critical articles, about the oppression, suppression, and repression we are inflicting upon the citizens and ex-pats of this nation, the heinous punishment we are handing out, and we are taking more egg on the face than we care to, we will issue a "statement of clarification", so nobody "misunderstands us, or our noble intentions". We are despots, and there is no length we will not go to, to make it seem otherwise. However, we do not want the world talking about us. That is a bridge too far. Damn, I sure wish the media, social media, and the news agencies did not exist. They make life so complicated for me, when I am always having to justify my behavior! Can't you guys just leave us alone?
    3 points
  23. .... Doesn't this kinda contradicts the other message that came out earlier today the your right to have an opinion as long as it's "right".
    3 points
  24. And where do the people who believe vaccines don’t work get their information. From YouTube? Lots of checks a balances and quality reporting going on with YouTube. Not like anyone can post on YouTube now is it ?
    3 points
  25. Sorry to hear that David. Over the past year I’ve helped a number of friends with the process of CoE including the preflight Covid, Insurance and until recently the Fit to Fly. Generally the local embassies (particularly in London) have been very quick to respond to the online process and answer emails. It seems as if you have been caught in the classic problem of agents and hotels or airlines claiming it’s the others problem. Over the last 10-15 years I have reduced the amount of bookings I do with agents and book it myself. Sometimes a little more expensive, but a whole lot less hassle when things go wrong. Thanks for posting this. The more people post their real experiences, the more people can be aware of the issues. I hope you can rebook and get your plans back on track soon.??
    3 points
  26. The inference with this article is that bookings are falling due to an increase in Covid numbers in Phuket (Tourists being scared off). It’s more likely that the reason numbers in August are falling, is that those expats and Thais who wanted to get back to Thailand without being quarantined in a Bangkok hotel have already returned? Without a breakdown in the data it’s had to come to a proper conclusion of course. The one number which doesn’t support what I have said is the average stay of 11 days. With 13,000 recorded visitors, and having to stay a full 14 days before being allowed to other parts of Thailand, this implies a few thousand flew in and back out in under that 14 days. This would suggest they were genuine “tourists”. They could have been Thais working overseas who have family in Phuket and wanted to visit them of course? If they also counted the government officials who have visited for a few hours then that would also bring the average way down! Impossible to tell without the data, but I am still to be convinced mum and dad with the two kids turned up beach towel in hand.
    3 points
  27. Since my country started vaccination, cases went down and are not going up although we have delta variant here. Clubs are open, people don't wear masks. Also they're stopping using Ivermectin because it was deemed ineffective.
    3 points
  28. You are completely wrong about vaccinations. These vaccinations are causing the surge in cases. Look at the 15 most vaccinated countries in the world, and their rise in cases mirrors the vaccination roll out. Antibodies from vaccines are very short lived, often starting to disappear within two months. They also limit greatly the strain of Covid that you are supposedly protected from. Far better to go down the medication route and give the population a 12 mg tablet of ivermectin when they display symptoms, as has worked in numerous countries, despite The lack of publicity
    3 points
  29. If there is one big upside to this sandbox scheme, it's that a big effort was put into vaccinating the people of Phuket. I hope that continues to ramp up, because the people of Phuket have both the most to gain and the most to lose. If the rate of vaccination (yes I mean both doses, not just one) continues to climb, the island's population will reach herd immunity. It is the unvaccinated citizens of Phuket who pose a risk to the hospital system. They have the greatest chance of contracting the virus and being hospitalised or dying from Covid. So if the vaccine rollout continues (yes even the children), there's a good chance it will still succeed. Keeping other Thai's from other provinces out is also imperative (I know it seems unimaginable to suggest that Thais not have the freedom of their own country), but it shuttles the sandbox nature of the project. World media are showing footage and daily covid numbers in Thailand. Foreign tourists won't come if they get even the hint that Covid can spill into Phuket from mainland Thailand (especially the Delta Variant). I think everyone wants this to work, because if it does, everybody benefits. Foreign tourists who have had PCR tests and are vaccinated pose little risk to the people of Phuket. In fact, it's the unvaccinated, in Phuket, who pose the greatest risk to their own community. So to the people of Phuket, get vaccinated as soon as itis offered to you and get the second dose at the appointed time. I wish you the best possible outcome. Look to the Seychelles who have already done what you are doing now.
    3 points
  30. Yea yea whatever .. it's presented as such to create an impression not in keeping with reality .. if project sandbox had been anywhere near the success they were lusting after we'd be getting glowing , gushing reports of tourists piling in .. but apart from the first couple of days the silence is becoming deafening ..
    3 points
  31. Yeah, what was the number they came up with for the average daily spend per tourist, 40k baht. Either dreaming or smoking something they shouldn't be smoking. 555
    3 points
  32. Somebody did, but since he's a health expert his opinion was greatly disregarded by the real experts, the soldier and the construction shaman. "The ministry’s latest mathematical model shows that without the tight restrictions now in place, new daily Covid cases would exceed 40,000 by Sept 14 and fatalities would pass 500 a day by Sept 28, said Dr Opas Karnkawinpong, director-general of the Department of Disease Control." https://www.bangkokpost.com/thailand/general/2157387/maximum-effort-to-keep-daily-covid-deaths-under-200
    3 points
  33. Yesterday I got many calls and all of them were talking about preparing their exit. I know many they left already mostly the ones without families because it is easier, some waited before to sell their condos but even they not sold it they left. I talked with sombody who left Thailand after 35 years and he said this was the worst time and worst gov in all his years in Thailand. But it started already 2017 and 2018 many sme businesses and people left Thailand because the conditions were already bad compare to neighbouring countries like Vietnam.
    3 points
  34. "poisonous jabs"....stop with your cr4p! If you are scared of vaccines just don't have them........ but fook off with your self-righteous pontificating.
    3 points
  35. An even wiser man said that the RT-PCR test are, and always have been worthless as a test for a virus. Even the inventor stated that!
    3 points
  36. You were wrong about the head of UK's MHRA saying that the role of the organisation was to enable access, and you are wrong again here. Here are a few mask studies; but first: Professor Chris Whitty, the UK’s Chief Medical Officer, said in March 2020 that wearing a face mask had almost no effect on reducing the risk of contracting covid-19, and that the UK Government did not advise healthy individuals to wear masks. His statement was broadcast on all mainstream channels on UK TV. ------- M. Klompas, C. Morris et al ‘Universal Masking in hospitals in the covid-19 era’ – New England Journal of Medicine 2020 ------- In 2015, the British Medical Journal published a paper entitled, A Cluster Randomised Trial of Cloth Masks Compared with Medical Masks in Healthcare Workers. ------- HSE Contract Research Report no 27/1991, produced by the British Health and Safety Executive and entitled, Dead space and inhaled carbon dioxide levels in respiratory protective equipment. ------- Rev Mal Respir, was designed to evaluate the effect of wearing a surgical mask during a six minute walking test. ------- A recent report published in the British Medical Journal summarised some mask-wearing risks. A published summary! First, when a face mask is worn, some of the air you breathe out goes into your eyes. This can be annoying and uncomfortable and if, as a result, you touch your eyes you may infect yourself. Second, face masks make breathing more difficult and, has already been pointed out, anyone who has a breathing problem will find that a mask makes it worse. Also, some of the carbon dioxide which is breathed out with each exhalation is then breathed in because it is trapped. Together these factors may mean that the mask wearer may breathe more frequently or more deeply, and if that happens then someone who has the coronavirus may end up breathing more of the virus into their lungs. If a mask is contaminated because it has been worn for too long then the risks are even greater. How long is too long? No one knows but two hours seems an accepted limit. Third, there is a risk that the accumulation of the virus in the fabric of the mask may increase the amount of the virus being breathed in. This might then defeat the body’s immune response and cause an increase in infections – other infections, not just the coronavirus. ------- A recent BMA study of 212 healthcare mask-wearing workers showed that a third of them developed headaches with 60% needing painkillers to relieve the headache. Some of the headaches were thought to be caused by an increase in the amount of carbon dioxide in the blood or a reduction in the amount of oxygen in the blood. Another study, this time of 159 young health workers, showed that 81% developed headaches after wearing face masks – so much so that their work was affected. An N95 mask can reduce blood oxygenation by as much as 20% and this can lead to a loss of consciousness. Naturally, this can be dangerous for vehicle drivers; masked bus drivers, for example, could be putting their passengers’ lives at risk. ------- Dr Russell Blaylock, a retired neurosurgeon, has reported that wearing a face mask can produce a number of problems varying from headaches to hypercapnia (a condition in which excess carbon dioxide accumulates in the body) and that the problems can include lifethreatening complications. Symptoms of hypercapnia include drowsiness, dizziness and fatigue. Some of the carbon dioxide exhaled with each breath is retained behind the mask and then breathed in again. Dr Blaylock has pointed to a study entitled, The use of masks and respirators to prevent transmission of influenza: a systematic review of the scientific evidence. This study looked at 17 separate studies and concluded that none of the studies established a conclusive relationship between the use of masks and protection against influenza infection. ‘When a person has TB we have them wear a mask,’ concluded Dr Blaylock, ‘not the entire community of the non- infected.’ ------- Dr M Griesz-Brisson MD PhD, a leading European consultant neurologist and neurophysiologist wrote a paper in October 2020. Rebreathing our exhaled air, because of wearing masks, will create oxygen deficiency and an excess of carbon dioxide in the body. ‘We know,’ she said, ‘that the human brain is very sensitive to oxygen deprivation. There are nerve cells in the hippocampus that cannot last longer than three minutes without oxygen.’ Dr Griesz-Brisson pointed out that the acute warning symptoms of oxygen deprivation are headaches, drowsiness, dizziness, difficulty in concentration and slowing down of reaction times................. ‘My conclusion has to be that no one has the right to force us to deprive our bodies of oxygen for absolutely no good reason.' ------- In a paper published in MedRxiv.2020 entitled, Physical interventions to interrupt or reduce the spread of respiratory viruses, T. Jefferson, M. Jones et al concluded that compared to not wearing a mask there was no reduction of influenza-like illnesses when health care workers or the general population wore masks. ------- In March 2020, Dr Jenny Harries, Deputy Chief Medical Officer in the UK, warned that it is possible to trap the virus in a mask and start breathing it in. She said that wearing a mask was not a good idea. ------- A meta-analysis published in May in 2020 by the Center for Disease Control (CDC) was entitled, Non-pharmaceutical measures for pandemic influenza in non-healthcare settings – personal protective and environment measures. The authors concluded that the evidence from randomized controlled trials of face masks did not support a substantial effect on the transmission of laboratory-confirmed influenza, either when worn by infected persons or by persons in the general community to reduce their susceptibility ------- In May 2016, a meta-analysis written by J. Smith and C. MacDougall and published in the Canadian Medical Association Journal concluded that both randomised controlled trials and observational studies of N95 respirators and surgical masks used by health care workers, did not show any benefit against the transmission of acute respiratory infections. The authors also concluded that acute respiratory infection transmission may have occurred via the contamination of provided respiratory protective equipment during storage and through the reuse of masks and respirators during the working day. ------- In 2019, a scientific paper written by L.Radonovich and M.Simberkoff was published in the Journal of the American Medical Association. The paper was entitled, N95 respirators vs medical masks for preventing influenza among health care personnel: a randomized clinical trial. The study involved 2,862 volunteers and showed that both surgical masks and N95 respirators ‘resulted in no significant difference in the incidence of laboratory confirmed influenza’. ------- In 2011, a meta-analysis of 17 separate studies regarding masks and the effect on the transmission of influenza found that none of the 17 studies established a conclusive relationship between mask or respirator use and protection against influenza infection. The study was conducted by F. bin-Reza, V. Lopez et al. ------- A paper entitled, Use of surgical face masks to reduce the incidence of the common cold among health workers in Japan: a randomized clinical trial was published in the American Journal of Infection Control in June 2009. The authors concluded that face mask use was found not to be protective against the common cold when compared to controls who did not wear face masks. If you would Stonker; give us a link that supports your position.
    3 points
  37. That’s fine providing you can personally guarantee 100% these vaccines won’t become the next Thalidomide - can you ?
    3 points
  38. 3 points
  39. It's opposite from a famous beach bar called "ArkBar" Well I never did. Have we got two religions mixed up now?
    3 points
  40. Phuket currently has 450 rooms ready for isolation and quarantine...sabai sabai? Just like what Ive been doing at home for the past year and a half..for free..with no hoops to jump thru...
    3 points
  41. Cod Satrusayang states that this is “the move of a desperate government that has lost much of its legitimacy and all of its trust with the people that it has failed.” He continues: This is Pxxxxx now, defeated but still defiant (or perhaps oblivious) to the truth. We should not expect any better because this was a government that seized power through a military coup. It is run by military men – incapable of any governance that relies on consent and not conscription. This latest move shows the Thai military is not one of strength but subjugation. We, the media and the people, can and must resist this latest proclamation. The decree, he says, is Orwellian. Sadly, it is far worse than that. A desperate regime appears willing to do everything it can to stay in power, trampling freedoms and again standing on the bodies of the innocent dead. <deleted non-approved LINK>
    3 points
  42. There is a parallel universe where the tables are turned and metisdead is Apirat . He is therefore hated in both universes by both falang and Thai.
    3 points
  43. Can't agree with you there Soidog. What is ",,,,,,holding the economies of the world back,,,,," is the UN telling the countries of the world how to react. Got nothing to do with any virus. There are massive interests at play here. I've my own views on 'why' but that for another thread. As for ",,,hospitalisations and death of Covid,,," Where are these deaths? "Get your jab and let’s all get back to a normal life." Once you can see the light, there is no jab.
    3 points
  44. The world's leading 'independent' scientists and doctors do know better and more. The data IS there for all to see. Most of it is being suppressed, blocked and even altered. But in spite of this it can be found. I can't agree about vaccines working. IMO none work. and this current crop are just the same. Constantly being promoted for Big Pharma (and others) to make billions of dollars for ???
    3 points
  45. A "personal" choice like which side of the road to drive on, or which way to drive down a one-way road? Or whether to wear a seat belt or a motorbike helmet? If you drive the wrong way down the road, you may be fine or you may get hurt - your choice. But you could also kill people, either directly by driving into them or indirectly by making them swerve into each other, and even if no-one was hurt you'd make things difficult for everybody else. If you don't wear a seat belt or a motorbike helmet you're the one most likely to be hurt, but if you're hurt you're also going to be taking an ambulance or a hospital bed away from others and, again, making things difficult for anyone else. Not getting vaccinated is just the same - yes, you're the one taking most risk but you're directly affecting others, whether it's being more likely to pass on the virus, so putting others at risk or forcing others to carry on wearing masks and distancing to mitigate your actions, or taking up a hospital bed and staff who are badly needed to take care of others. YOU'RE NOT THE ONLY ONE AFFECTED BY YOUR ACTIONS. Why is that so hard to understand?
    3 points
  46. I am not a anti vaccine type of person. However, I do make an effort to practice common sense. These vaccines utilize a new method of developing vaccines. In my opinion it seems warranted that people should be hesitant to get the vaccines given the limited time since they have been in development. Furthermore, over the past year and a half the definition of so-called heard immunity has been changed multiple times. With officials making different claims as to the minimum number of people in a given society needed to be vaccinated in order to reach so-called heard immunity. The first claim for Heard immunity stated that at least 70% of the population should be vaccinated in order to reach heard immunity. Now the experts of changed it to 85% to 90%. This creates on mistrust and skepticism among many people. Personally I see no issue with people wanting to take their time to see how the vaccines play out in society. lastly, the choice to get a vaccine is a personal one. I do not see how people that push towards vaccinations should have any say in another persons choice. If you or I choose to get the vaccine or if we choose not to get the vaccine it should be no case for reprimand by anyone else. While the world is talking about heard immunity it seems much more important to me the matter of herd mentality. The latter seems a far more dangerous reality at times then many realize.
    3 points
  47. Im busy carrying the burden of the unvaccinated...as covid is "still here" ..funny how you mention "left panicking" from a party and administration who sows doubt and conspiracies and Fear politics 101 aka GOP
    3 points
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